View Poll Results: Is This Man a Faith Healer?

Voters
13. You may not vote on this poll
  • YES!

    2 15.38%
  • NO!

    9 69.23%
  • It is possible!

    2 15.38%
  • OTHER

    0 0%
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 22

Thread: Is This Man a Faith Healer?

  1. #11
    Global Moderator
    Bodhidarma approves bigly
    Andalublue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Granada, España
    Last Seen
    12-16-17 @ 01:21 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    26,111

    Re: Is This Man a Faith Healer?

    I just voted YES. The guy IS a faith healer. He says in the video that he heals "by the Grace of God, it is God healing through me." That seems like the definition of a faith healer. Does he have success? Well, there seem to be plenty of people there who believe they have been helped by him. If they believe they have been helped and they feel better as a result, then that is some degree of success. Good for the Doc! Is what he does scientifically verifiable? I don't think so, because our understanding of the interaction of the mind and the body is still quite rudimentary. I would venture that what he is doing is entirely psychosomatic. That doesn't mean that what he does doesn't have real physiological outcomes, because clearly it does. But can one explain his healing entirely through allopathic medicine? No. Nor do you have to. The various different approaches to healing can work hand-in-hand.

    I have 2 problems with 'alternative' approaches to healing:
    1. When 'alternative', or 'comlementary' approaches claim to be scientifically valid. Homoeopathy is the worst offender here. It cannot be explained in empirical scientific terms. It has not been proven and cannot be proven. I'm not saying it doesn't work, just that you cannot explain it away as 'another branch of science' because the evidence isn't there to support it.
    2. When 'complementary' medicine becomes a complete alternative. When conventional medicine can cure a serious or life-threatening condition but the patient or guardians of a patient (much worse!) put their faith entirely in the 'alternative'. Such cases rarely have a good outcome.

      Apart from those cases, what's not to appreciate? If something works, it works and we don't HAVE to be able to understand every last detail of the mechanism by which it heals, although that would be nice.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

  2. #12
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Is This Man a Faith Healer?

    Faith healing and prayer therapy are absurd forms of pseudoscience. They are DANGEROUS, because they discourage people from seeking real treatment. If this method actually works, why doesn't this doctor conduct some double-blind experiments and write up his results for the New England Journal of Medicine?

    Answer: Because it's complete bull****, and this guy knows his claims won't stand up to scientific scrutiny.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 02-16-11 at 05:56 PM.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  3. #13
    Global Moderator
    Bodhidarma approves bigly
    Andalublue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Granada, España
    Last Seen
    12-16-17 @ 01:21 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    26,111

    Re: Is This Man a Faith Healer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Faith healing and prayer therapy are absurd forms of pseudoscience. They are DANGEROUS, because it discourages people from seeking real treatment. If this method actually works, why doesn't this doctor conduct some double-blind experiments and write up his results for the New England Journal of Medicine?

    Answer: Because it's complete bull****, and this guy knows his claims won't stand up to scientific scrutiny.
    I can't agree. Is it anything more than the placebo effect? It appears to be, but perhaps not. Does the placebo effect work? Yup.

    You can't seriously ask this methods to apply double-blind. It's not the kind of healing that you can measure that way. But I would only support provided it DIDN'T discourage people from seeking allopathic treatment. It can do, and in those cases it needs to be trashed, but I don't believe that it inevitably discourages people from accepting treatment from the mainstream system.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

  4. #14
    Sage
    scourge99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    The Wild West
    Last Seen
    01-27-12 @ 02:50 AM
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    6,233

    Re: Is This Man a Faith Healer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Is it anything more than the placebo effect?
    If I physically cut off your arm with a saw that is not a placebo effect. If I put chemicals in your body that physically alters your body's chemistry and functions that is NOT a placebo effect.

    Perhaps you can MENTALLY ignore the pain from me having sawn off your arm or MENTALLY ignore the caffeine rush after drinking a coke. But you CANNOT deny that these are real, physical, quantifiable effects that have ramifications on your body's functions.

    Homeopathy have no physical effects. Their effects are indistinguishable from a placebo in doubleblind studies.


    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Does the placebo effect work? Yup.
    Then you don't need to buy a $25 homeopathy treatment. Just take a sugar pill.


    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    You can't seriously ask this methods to apply double-blind. It's not the kind of healing that you can measure that way.
    .
    Why? Explain. Explain why its not reasonable to
    1) give 1000 people a homeopathy medicine
    2) 1000 people a placebo but tell them its a homeopathy medicine.
    Then compare the results to see if the homeopathy ACTUALLY works better than the placebo.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  5. #15
    Global Moderator
    Bodhidarma approves bigly
    Andalublue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Granada, España
    Last Seen
    12-16-17 @ 01:21 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    26,111

    Re: Is This Man a Faith Healer?

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    If I physically cut off your arm with a saw that is not a placebo effect. If I put chemicals in your body that physically alters your body's chemistry and functions that is NOT a placebo effect.

    Perhaps you can MENTALLY ignore the pain from me having sawn off your arm or MENTALLY ignore the caffeine rush after drinking a coke. But you CANNOT deny that these are real, physical, quantifiable effects that have ramifications on your body's functions.

    Homeopathy have no physical effects. Their effects are indistinguishable from a placebo in doubleblind studies.



    Then you don't need to buy a $25 homeopathy treatment. Just take a sugar pill.


    .
    Why? Explain. Explain why its not reasonable to
    1) give 1000 people a homeopathy medicine
    2) 1000 people a placebo but tell them its a homeopathy medicine.
    Then compare the results to see if the homeopathy ACTUALLY works better than the placebo.
    Well, I would go into some detail in explaining my position... if we were discussing homoeopathy, but we're not.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

  6. #16
    Sage
    scourge99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    The Wild West
    Last Seen
    01-27-12 @ 02:50 AM
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    6,233

    Re: Is This Man a Faith Healer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Well, I would go into some detail in explaining my position... if we were discussing homoeopathy, but we're not.
    I'm calling you out at a liar

    Here is a thread on homeopathy started yesterday. Its about James Randi $1,000,000 challenege to show that any homeopathic treatement works as advertised.
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/religi...ed-effect.html
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

  7. #17
    Sage
    Hatuey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:30 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    42,091

    Re: Is This Man a Faith Healer?

    Faith healing is a scam.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  8. #18
    Sage
    Barbbtx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    W'Ford TX
    Last Seen
    11-10-12 @ 08:04 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    8,467

    Re: Is This Man a Faith Healer?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    I have seen a lot of this o'er the years from many "faith healers".
    I do not know what to make of it, I've heard a lot of it is staged, do I trust them ?
    no
    I tried to listen to the videos, but my sound quality is terrible and I am 50% deaf ( but no trouble with the commercials...lol)
    I bet you'd believe if he fixed your hearing
    I know there are a lot of fakes out there, but I still believe it's possible. This guy may be legit.
    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
    1/27/12

  9. #19
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    12-15-17 @ 10:49 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,323

    Re: Is This Man a Faith Healer?

    Quote Originally Posted by peepnklown View Post
    I’ll pay attention when this so called ‘faith’ healer can re-grow limbs with prayer.
    That is as dumb as it gets. Can your body regrow limbs? Can your body health itself? Show me a doctor who can regrow limbs?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  10. #20
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Is This Man a Faith Healer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    I can't agree. Is it anything more than the placebo effect? It appears to be, but perhaps not. Does the placebo effect work? Yup.
    A doctor who can do no better than a placebo is a quack.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue
    You can't seriously ask this methods to apply double-blind. It's not the kind of healing that you can measure that way.
    Why not? Some people were supposedly cured, and others were presumably not. That seems relatively easy to have a control group and a test group. Why can't he do a double-blind experiment and write the results up for a respected medical journal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue
    But I would only support provided it DIDN'T discourage people from seeking allopathic treatment. It can do, and in those cases it needs to be trashed, but I don't believe that it inevitably discourages people from accepting treatment from the mainstream system.
    If people believe that they are taking part in a treatment program with a high likelihood of success, they are unlikely to be searching for other treatment programs.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •