View Poll Results: What of the New Ban.

Voters
93. You may not vote on this poll
  • Good

    30 32.26%
  • Too far

    58 62.37%
  • Other

    5 5.38%
Page 8 of 55 FirstFirst ... 67891018 ... LastLast
Results 71 to 80 of 545

Thread: New Smoking Ban Good or Bad?

  1. #71
    Guru
    USA_1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    BANNED
    Last Seen
    04-16-11 @ 02:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,142

    Re: New Smoking Ban Good or Bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    A few hundred dollars aggregated over the whole of the smoking community. And the whole of the smoking community does not have to have heart and lung transplants or get cancer. It's a dramatic increase in probability and more smokers than non-smokers will be affected by these diseases; but not all of them get it. Maybe we can stop with the hyperbole and deal only with reality? Maybe? In addition, they pay larger heath insurance premiums (which you don't seem to be adding in) and subsidize pensions (which you don't seem to be adding in).
    Do you honestly believe that smokers cost to society are made up in taxes and insurance premiums?

    Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that smokers cost the country $96 billion a year in direct health care costs, and an additional $97 billion a year in lost productivity.
    Last edited by USA_1; 02-04-11 at 03:35 PM.
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

  2. #72
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 01:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,124

    Re: New Smoking Ban Good or Bad?

    Now subtract out the nominal direct heath care costs of non-smokers and the amount of lost productivity incurred each year out of non-smokers (less you're going to say that non-smokers never get sick or take vacation). Then calculate all the money made per year off of cigarettes to the State, the money saved through pension subsidization, and the additional money paid in insurance premiums from the average smoker. Then you'll have a more realistic number.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  3. #73
    Guru
    USA_1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    BANNED
    Last Seen
    04-16-11 @ 02:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,142

    Re: New Smoking Ban Good or Bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Now subtract out the nominal direct heath care costs of non-smokers and the amount of lost productivity incurred each year out of non-smokers (less you're going to say that non-smokers never get sick or take vacation). Then calculate all the money made per year off of cigarettes to the State, the money saved through pension subsidization, and the additional money paid in insurance premiums from the average smoker. Then you'll have a more realistic number.
    What did you come up with?
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

  4. #74
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 01:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,124

    Re: New Smoking Ban Good or Bad?

    It's still going to be a cost on the system, but the number is maybe 2/3's of what you posted. You still have to subtract out the nominal level of health care burden produced by the average person which I do not have and the additional money generated by higher premiums. I don't know how one would estimate the pension subsidization since those people die earlier. We'd also have to look at end of life care in which it costs well more to keep a 96 year old person alive for 6 more months than a smoker can generate. If one could accurately compile all those numbers we'd have a real indication of the additional net costs smokers have on the system; but those numbers seem hard to find.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  5. #75
    Guru
    USA_1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    BANNED
    Last Seen
    04-16-11 @ 02:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,142

    Re: New Smoking Ban Good or Bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It's still going to be a cost on the system, but the number is maybe 2/3's of what you posted. You still have to subtract out the nominal level of health care burden produced by the average person which I do not have and the additional money generated by higher premiums. I don't know how one would estimate the pension subsidization since those people die earlier. We'd also have to look at end of life care in which it costs well more to keep a 96 year old person alive for 6 more months than a smoker can generate. If one could accurately compile all those numbers we'd have a real indication of the additional net costs smokers have on the system; but those numbers seem hard to find.
    I don't know where you live but in my world 96 year olds are just made as comfortable as possible in their last few months. Expensive surgery, treatments or live saving measures are not performed on 96 year olds.
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

  6. #76
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 01:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,124

    Re: New Smoking Ban Good or Bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by USA-1 View Post
    I don't know where you live but in my world 96 year olds are just made as comfortable as possible in their last few months. Expensive surgery, treatments or live saving measures are not performed on 96 year olds.
    Yeah, cause old people totally never have cancer, or Alzheimer, or any ailment which requires expensive treatments, extended hospital visits, large amounts of medication, etc.

    How is the Garden of Eden this time of year, BTW?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #77
    Guru
    USA_1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    BANNED
    Last Seen
    04-16-11 @ 02:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,142

    Re: New Smoking Ban Good or Bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yeah, cause old people totally never have cancer, or Alzheimer, or any ailment which requires expensive treatments, extended hospital visits, large amounts of medication, etc.

    How is the Garden of Eden this time of year, BTW?
    No. Thats not what I said. They don't do expensive surgery or treatments on 96 year olds unless they are trying to screw medicare.
    "This Administration will constantly strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home. It is in our national interest that more people own their own home. After all, if you own your own home, you have a vital stake in the future of our country."" GWB

  8. #78
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 01:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,124

    Re: New Smoking Ban Good or Bad?

    Yeah, they just let those jerks die, don't they? No long term hospitalization or usage of services which require massive amounts of money or any of it. You're so right. We also don't spend massive amounts of money trying to find cures for aliments for the old. No sir! I should call up my adviser's father (who is a PhD medical researcher specializing in Alzheimers) to tell him he's out of a job cause we don't spend lots of money on health care for the old.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #79
    Farts in Elevators
    OscarB63's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Alabama
    Last Seen
    09-06-14 @ 07:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    26,526

    Re: New Smoking Ban Good or Bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by USA-1 View Post
    No. Thats not what I said. They don't do expensive surgery or treatments on 96 year olds unless they are trying to screw medicare.
    my great uncle had a heart condition. he was 93. they sent him home to die. after 6 months, hospice left. said he had lived too long and that they couldn't stay any longer. he lived for another couple of years after that.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

  10. #80
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 01:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,124

    Re: New Smoking Ban Good or Bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    my great uncle had a heart condition. he was 93. they sent him home to die. after 6 months, hospice left. said he had lived too long and that they couldn't stay any longer. he lived for another couple of years after that.
    Yeah, major organ transplants aren't going to be done on the really old, you have to be slightly younger. But it's not to say that we don't spend massive amounts of money on treating the old.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

Page 8 of 55 FirstFirst ... 67891018 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •