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Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

Yes or No?

  • Total voters
    58
liblady said:
no, i don't think there are divorce stats with any meaning available on ssm. you stated they would further the 50% divorce rate, a statement with no authority. however, even if they did.......so what? we don't deny hetero marriage because a couple might divorce, do we?
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Right...we should deny hetero marriage which will likely end in divorce. This would be like denying a driver's license to someone who will likely drive drunk, or a CCW to someone we know will likely murder.

To allow people to marry whom they want while reducing the likelihood of divorce, we need to require pre-marital and marital finance counseling. Since we can't single out high-risk demographics and only set such requirements on them without it being discrimination, we should impose these requirements on everyone.
 
CriticalThought said:
Um...that doesn't change the fact that it is terrible reasoning. The factors that lead to a 50% divorce rate in heterosexual couples are the same as those that influence same sex couples. As such, you can't use divorce as a justification for denying same sex couples the right to marry.
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I don't single out gays. I damn everyone equally.

I oppose existing SSM because it does nothing to fix a real problem. Put SSM in a marriage overhaul and it would get my vote.

What pro-SSM can't seem to understand is that they don't really matter. SSM banned: life goes on. SSM legalized, the world doesn't end. It doesn't matter either way. So, if gays want true and lasting social acceptance and validation, they need to represent themselves as family-first. Presenting gay couples with children marrying along with other pro-marriage regulation is the most streamlines and efficient way to accomplish the task.
 
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Jerry said:
I oppose existing SSM because it does nothing to fix a real problem. Put SSM in a marriage overhaul and it would get my vote.
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You are lying. As you have stated before, you oppose same sex marriage on scriptural grounds. As such, you cannot claim you would support same sex marriage if they put it under some sort of marriage overhaul.
 
Jerry said:
Right...we should deny hetero marriage which will likely end in divorce. This would be like denying a driver's license to someone who will likely drive drunk, or a CCW to someone we know will likely murder.

To allow people to marry whom they want while reducing the likelihood of divorce, we need to require pre-marital and marital finance counseling. Since we can't single out high-risk demographics and only set such requirements on them without it being discrimination, we should impose these requirements on everyone.
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fail, jerry. what does the divorce rate have to do with ssm?
 
liblady said:
fail, jerry. what does the divorce rate have to do with ssm?
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I know! It's like he isn't even trying anymore. That is the weirdest reasoning I think I have heard on this forum to date.
 
CriticalThought said:
You are lying.
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I'm telling the truth.

CriticalThought said:
As you have stated before, you oppose same sex marriage on scriptural grounds.
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Yes, and....

CriticalThought said:
As such, you cannot claim you would support same sex marriage if they put it under some sort of marriage overhaul.
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Of course I can, because I say the same for interracial and mixed-faith marriage, marrying young.

Sins can be justified and guilt removed. You're not supposed to eat shellfish, but you're marooned on an island and that's all there is to eat. God says choose life in all things, and starving yourself is suicide which is also a sin, so it's shellfish for dinner.

Scripture speaks against same-sex relations, but it speaks higher of doing right by children, so if SSM is doing right by children the good outweighs the bad.
 
Yes, he did.

But his scripture seems to say whatever he decides it says at any given moment.

CriticalThought said:
You are lying. As you have stated before, you oppose same sex marriage on scriptural grounds. As such, you cannot claim you would support same sex marriage if they put it under some sort of marriage overhaul.
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liblady said:
what does the divorce rate have to do with ssm?
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I already told you, SSM furthers the 50% divorce rate as per pro-SSM arguments that gays are no different than heteros.
 
Amazed said:
Yes, he did.

But his scripture seems to say whatever he decides it says at any given moment.
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It's always easier to assassinate someone's character in public then debate them.
 
Oh Jerry...you ran from the debate.

One must be prepared to back up one's claims when one makes them...if you are going to condemn it on the grounds of "scripture" you shouldn't be afraid to reveal just what "scripture" you are talking about.

I am assasinating nothing....you just don't like being pinned down to what the things you type actually mean.

You ain't my first rodeo cowboy :)

Jerry said:
It's always easier to assassinate someone's character in public then debate them.
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Jerry said:
Scripture speaks against same-sex relations, but it speaks higher of doing right by children, so if SSM is doing right by children the good outweighs the bad.
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Sorry I must have missed the "if the good outweighs the bad" clause in the Bible.

Nonetheless you cannot oppose same sex marriage on the grounds of divorce. If you want to oppose all state sanctioned marriage, then you would be fine, but selectively arguing you oppose same sex marriage until all marriage is overhauled makes no sense.
 
Jerry said:
I already told you, SSM furthers the 50% divorce rate as per pro-SSM arguments that gays are no different than heteros.
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How does it "further" the divorce rate? It's a ludicrous argument.
 
Amazed said:
Oh Jerry...you ran from the debate.

One must be prepared to back up one's claims when one makes them...if you are going to condemn it on the grounds of "scripture" you shouldn't be afraid to reveal just what "scripture" you are talking about.

I am assasinating nothing....you just don't like being pinned down to what the things you type actually mean.

You ain't my first rodeo cowboy :)
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Moderator's Warning:
That's enough baiting, Amazed. You've been warned twice. You will not be warned again.
 
With all due respect, nobody is baiting anyone.

I am asking him legitimate questions based upon his posts.

He brought up scripture he shouldn't be afraid to clarify, and you shouldn't be afraid to let him.

Goshin said:
Moderator's Warning:
That's enough baiting, Amazed. You've been warned twice. You will not be warned again.
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Moderator's Warning:
Do not question moderator actions inthread. This is a potential 10 point infraction.
 
CriticalThought said:
Um...that doesn't change the fact that it is terrible reasoning. The factors that lead to a 50% divorce rate in heterosexual couples are the same as those that influence same sex couples. As such, you can't use divorce as a justification for denying same sex couples the right to marry.
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Except that, they occur with much more frequency in the homosexual culture than in the heterosexual one.. Hence, if it occurs with more frequency, and as you say are the same "factors" that contribute to heterosexual divorce, one can add up the predictive correlates, no?

Sorry if this was already mentioned, just posting as I read your post.. :)


Tim-
 
CriticalThought said:
How does it "further" the divorce rate? It's a ludicrous argument.
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It is, in fact, what pro-SSM has told me on this forum.

If SSM will further (continue, perpetuate, emulate, condone) the 50% divorce rate, then since I already oppose most hetero marriages due to that divorce rate I must therefore also oppose most SSM.

In this way it really has nothing to do with gays and only has to do with high-at-risk couplings.

If SSM has a lower divorce rate, then I logically must support SSM more than OSM. If SSM has a higher divorce rate, then I must logically oppose SSM more than OSM
 
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Jerry said:
It is, in fact, what pro-SSM has told me on this forum.

If SSM will further (continue, perpetuate, emulate, condone) the 50% divorce rate, then since I already oppose most hetero marriages due to that divorce rate I must therefore also oppose most SSM.

In this way it really has nothing to do with gays and only has to do with high-at-risk couplings.

If SSM has a lower divorce rate, then I logically must support SSM more than OSM. If SSM has a higher divorce rate, then I must logically oppose SSM more than OSM
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There is zero data either way. We do not know what the divorce rate would be with SSM.
 
Redress said:
There is zero data either way. We do not know what the divorce rate would be with SSM.
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If that's so, then how can gays insist that they are the same as heteros?

***
I've been in to many DP threads where pro-SSM pulls out data from U.S. States and other countries which have legalized SSM for anyone to now simply say "nu-uuh" and I believe it.
 
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Jerry said:
If that's so, then how can gay insist that they are the same as heteros?
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Um Jerry...gays prefer people of the same gender. That is different.
 
Really?

That's it, Jerry believes so it is so?

Not a good debate tactic.

Jerry said:
If that's so, then how can gays insist that they are the same as heteros?

***
I've been in to many DP threads where pro-SSM pulls out data from U.S. States and other countries which have legalized SSM for anyone to now simply say "nu-uuh" and I believe it.
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Hicup said:
Except that, they occur with much more frequency in the homosexual culture than in the heterosexual one.. Hence, if it occurs with more frequency, and as you say are the same "factors" that contribute to heterosexual divorce, one can add up the predictive correlates, no?

Sorry if this was already mentioned, just posting as I read your post.. :)


Tim-
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What happens more often... separation? You know that you can't count separation of a non-married homosexual couple against anything other than the separation of a non-married heterosexual couple, right? Once this simple little bit of logic is understood, your whole issue become moot.

Both orientations separate frequently when not married...
 
Amazed said:
Really?

That's it, Jerry believes so it is so?

Not a good debate tactic.
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I've learned to wait until a new member conforms to the norms of posting style before giving them any real effort, so don't expect anything of real substance out of any response I have for you until then.
 
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Meaning you've learned I will hold your feet to the fire in what you post :)

All the same, your opinion is no more than the next man's.

Like I said Jerry, just because YOU "believe" something doesn't make it fact, sorry.


Jerry said:
I've learned to wait until a new member conforms to the norms of posting style before giving them any real effort, so don't expect anything of really substance out of any response I have to until then.
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you Post.
 
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