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Thread: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

  1. #531
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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Going back to silly games:

    If other people's relationships don't affect me and are therefore non of my business, I accept that as true and agree. As I don't personally want the 'right' to marry a man for myself, I'll vote no on such legislation when I can; this is coming from a father who's children would benefit from such a marriage.

    Yes I make that choice for myself based on personal religious conviction, but it's my life and my vote so as per the 1st amendment I'm free to choose. In fact, you're legally prevented from stopping me.
    Last edited by Jerry; 02-12-11 at 10:42 PM.

  2. #532
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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Yes or no, and explain your answer.

    I say yes, SSM promotes family just like opposite sex marriage.
    I'm going to try to set aside my dislike of SSM and consider the question.

    According to various credible sources, LGBT persons typically account for 3-7% of the general population. How many of them would be intrested in SSM? How many of those will be intrested in adopting or otherwise having children?

    I don't know the answers to those questions, but I assume each subset is smaller than the previous subset.

    Let's say LGBT's are 5% of the population. Some of them are bi and married to the opposite sex already. Some of them aren't intrested in marriage at all.

    Let's look at Massachusetts, which legalized SSM in 2004.

    Some facts...

    Same-sex marriage in the U.S. state of Massachusetts began on May 17, 2004,

    Forty percent of the female couples had children in their homes. In the first year, more than 6,200 gay and lesbian couples were married due to pent-up demand, but that number fell to only 1,900 marriages in the second year. Out of the total of more than 8,100 marriages, 64% involve lesbian couples
    Same-sex marriage in Massachusetts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    If that rate held true since 2005, then there should be currently a total of 17,600 SSM couples in Massachusetts today, roughly. 64% were lesbians, and 40% of that subset had children in the home... I have no stats on male homosexual couples having children, for Massachusetts.

    Massachusetts had an estimated 2009 population of 6,593,587
    If we assume 3.5 persons per household (a reasonable median figure), Mass should have about
    1,885,000 households. If 17,600 of them are SSM households, that is 0.9%.

    We know that 64% are lesbian households, and that 40% of those have children involved. That's 0.2% of total households that we know are raising children, the traditional and societal purpose of "family".

    0.2%

    Even if we consider this a positive in itself, it obviously isn't going to have much impact on the societal need for families responsibly raising children, it would seem.
    Last edited by Goshin; 02-12-11 at 11:42 PM.

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  3. #533
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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I'm going to try to set aside my dislike of SSM and consider the question.

    According to various credible sources, LGBT persons typically account for 3-7% of the general population. How many of them would be intrested in SSM? How many of those will be intrested in adopting or otherwise having children?

    I don't know the answers to those questions, but I assume each subset is smaller than the previous subset.

    Let's say LGBT's are 5% of the population. Some of them are bi and married to the opposite sex already. Some of them aren't intrested in marriage at all.

    Let's look at Massachusetts, which legalized SSM in 2004.

    Some facts...



    Same-sex marriage in Massachusetts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    If that rate held true since 2005, then there should be currently a total of 17,600 SSM couples in Massachusetts today, roughly. 64% were lesbians, and 40% of that subset had children in the home... I have no stats on male homosexual couples having children, for Massachusetts.



    If we assume 3.5 persons per household (a reasonable median figure), Mass should have about
    1,885,000 households. If 17,600 of them are SSM households, that is 0.9%.

    We know that 64% are lesbian households, and that 40% of those have children involved. That's 0.2% of total households that we know are raising children, the traditional and societal purpose of "family".

    0.2%

    Even if we consider this a positive in itself, it obviously isn't going to have much impact on the societal need for families responsibly raising children, it would seem.
    Thumbs for number crunching and links. Good job.

    What would the numbers look like if we accounted for the divorce rate?
    Last edited by Jerry; 02-12-11 at 11:47 PM.

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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Thumbs for number crunching and links. Good job.

    What would the numbers look like if we accounted for the divorce rate?

    Hard to say, I haven't come across any data on SSM divorce rates yet, as it is a relatively new thing.

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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I enjoy sampling various angles of debate, and in so doing I am forced to hid my religious zealotry. It's not always necessary for me to wear it in the open, especially while arguing the other side academically.

    It's no secret that I hold fervor or tireless devotion for a person, cause, or ideal and determination in its furtherance; diligent enthusiasm and powerful interest in the Lord. In fact I don't know why anyone would ever truthfully deny being a zealot of their cause unless they had an integrity issue, or a simple lack of motivation.

    Academics aside, yes I honestly would support SSM if it were principally about the family. But it's not, and every thread, post and argument on the "strictly legal contract", "right to contract" and "equal protection" are a witness. SSM barely regards the family as an after thought, searching for the rare exceptions in their ranks to drag before the public eye to support a hollow argument.

    I know that SSM will be legalized eventually because I know that this Earth is ruled by Lucifer. It therefore follows that sin would be made acceptable.
    Offtopic but curious do you consider Lucifer and Satan to be the same being?
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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    Offtopic but curious do you consider Lucifer and Satan to be the same being?
    No.

    "Satan" is more of a generic term used to describe just about any antagonistic Nephelim, whereas Lucifer is the name of a specific being. Some bible-thumper will say something like "abortion is the work of Satan", which is true in a general sense, but the name of the Nephilim which taught Man abortion is Kasayed; a Nephilim.

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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I enjoy sampling various angles of debate, and in so doing I am forced to hid my religious zealotry. It's not always necessary for me to wear it in the open, especially while arguing the other side academically.

    It's no secret that I hold fervor or tireless devotion for a person, cause, or ideal and determination in its furtherance; diligent enthusiasm and powerful interest in the Lord. In fact I don't know why anyone would ever truthfully deny being a zealot of their cause unless they had an integrity issue, or a simple lack of motivation.

    Academics aside, yes I honestly would support SSM if it were principally about the family. But it's not, and every thread, post and argument on the "strictly legal contract", "right to contract" and "equal protection" are a witness. SSM barely regards the family as an after thought, searching for the rare exceptions in their ranks to drag before the public eye to support a hollow argument.

    I know that SSM will be legalized eventually because I know that this Earth is ruled by Lucifer. It therefore follows that sin would be made acceptable.
    Interesting selective perception bias. I could do a case study on your particular brand of delusion.

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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Interesting selective perception bias. I could do a case study on your particular brand of delusion.
    Oh where do we begin? Do you like a form or something I need to fill out?

  9. #539
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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    You ar a bit obsessed with Divorce...latent issues?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Thumbs for number crunching and links. Good job.

    What would the numbers look like if we accounted for the divorce rate?
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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amazed View Post
    You ar a bit obsessed with Divorce...latent issues?
    Divorce is the only element of the legal institution of marriage which harems everyone else. It's divorce which raises the juvenile crime and teen pregnancy rates.

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