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Thread: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

  1. #441
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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    Same goes for post-menopausal women! So, apparently if you bang your wife after she goes dry, you're sinning and shouldn't be allowed to stay married.

    Forced divorce after menopause and impotence!
    I haven't noticed a problem. maybe you just don't know what you're doing?
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  2. #442
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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    I just find it funny that whenever a gay supporter tries to make a comparison to a hetero couple/situation to show they are "the same", they always have to use a hetero couple with biological deficiency.

    gay couples can't create their own kids and get compared to infertile (ie not normal) hetero couples

    the anus is not self lubricating so gay dudes have to use lube, this gets compared to women with arousal problems (aka a deficiency) who have to use lube

    etc. etc. etc.

    nothing against gays but they are not "the same".

    If God/evolution had intended for dudes to bang each other up the old hershey highway they wouldn't need to use astro glide or KY.
    Why would sex come into this at all? Not all gay guys have anal sex. And how they have sex is none of yours or my business. And it has absolutely zero to do with marriage or even having a family, besides pointing out that most opposite sex couples nowdays accidentally get pregnant more often than not because of their usual method of having sex for their own pleasure. The majority of even married heterosexual couples do not plan their children. Most of them are not trying to get pregnant when they do. It happens as a consequence of their activities rather than after a planned process to get them ready for having children, which is preferred.

    Legal marriage is a contract. The contract grants certain rights and responsibilities to those two people involved that are meant to encourage them to stay together and to help them be more independent of their childhood families by making them more dependent on each other, legally. This helps children that may already be there or that they may want to raise or, in the case of opposite sex couples, that may just come along by accident, because it is important for children to have stability in those that are raising them.

    I don't understand what the issue is here. Why is it so important to anti-SSM people that the gays can't produce children with each other? Adoption and raising children that weren't biologically one of the two people's in a relationship isn't new. It has happened pretty much throughout history. And it really isn't even a new concept to have sex outside of a marriage for the sole purpose of reproduction either. And today we have the technology to make it even easier for those couples who can't have children between them to still have children that carry at least on of the two of their DNA without any infidelity involved.

    Those families are no less of a family than families like mine where a husband and wife are raising their own biological children. And compared to some families that are like mine, they are even better because those who use other methods to legally raise children that aren't the product of sex between the two people raising the children most likely planned for the child/children they are raising. They are more likely to actually take into account their finances and situation before they think about raising children, and it isn't going to happen by accident.
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  3. #443
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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    I haven't noticed a problem. maybe you just don't know what you're doing?
    If you're banging her dry, the YOU don't know what you're doing.

  4. #444
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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Neither can infertile opposite sex couples. Both infertile opposite sex couples and same sex couples can become families and they can even raise children through either one of the pair fathering or mothering a child, someone else having a child specifically for them, or adoption.
    The didn't know they were infertile when the got married.
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  5. #445
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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Why would sex come into this at all? Not all gay guys have anal sex. And how they have sex is none of yours or my business. And it has absolutely zero to do with marriage or even having a family, besides pointing out that most opposite sex couples nowdays accidentally get pregnant more often than not because of their usual method of having sex for their own pleasure. The majority of even married heterosexual couples do not plan their children. Most of them are not trying to get pregnant when they do. It happens as a consequence of their activities rather than after a planned process to get them ready for having children, which is preferred.

    Legal marriage is a contract. The contract grants certain rights and responsibilities to those two people involved that are meant to encourage them to stay together and to help them be more independent of their childhood families by making them more dependent on each other, legally. This helps children that may already be there or that they may want to raise or, in the case of opposite sex couples, that may just come along by accident, because it is important for children to have stability in those that are raising them.

    I don't understand what the issue is here. Why is it so important to anti-SSM people that the gays can't produce children with each other? Adoption and raising children that weren't biologically one of the two people's in a relationship isn't new. It has happened pretty much throughout history. And it really isn't even a new concept to have sex outside of a marriage for the sole purpose of reproduction either. And today we have the technology to make it even easier for those couples who can't have children between them to still have children that carry at least on of the two of their DNA without any infidelity involved.

    Those families are no less of a family than families like mine where a husband and wife are raising their own biological children. And compared to some families that are like mine, they are even better because those who use other methods to legally raise children that aren't the product of sex between the two people raising the children most likely planned for the child/children they are raising. They are more likely to actually take into account their finances and situation before they think about raising children, and it isn't going to happen by accident.
    See. This is the "frosting on the cake" I was referring too. All of these equivocations are just that - equivocation! If you remove any cultural adaptations, or circumstantial, and material needs, and desires across the board, you're left with one conclusion. Homosexuality, in and of itself does NOT promote family! By extension, homosexual marriage would also not promote family. Any attempts here to somehow place some emphasis on exceptional situations (Sophistry), or to marginalize, or de-emphasize the significance of heterosexual marriage as an appropritate and self evident vehicle for creating famlies is falling on deaf ears.
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  6. #446
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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    The didn't know they were infertile when the got married.
    What are you talking about? Lots of people know they are infertile before they get married. Lots of people decide they don't want children before they are married.

  7. #447
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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    What are you talking about? Lots of people know they are infertile before they get married. Lots of people decide they don't want children before they are married.
    What is significant statistically for you to use the term, lots? I don't about you, but almost, if not every parent I know wanted kids, the when, and why may not be as so clear cut among the families I know, but the question of children was never an after-thought. There are tons of situations whereby creating a family is not ideal, even for heterosexuals, mainly where the best interests of the child are concerned; but these are material, and also exceptional. Heterosexual marriage, and by extension homosexual marriage, pin the argument to certain intrinsic characteristics that one infers as important to the underlying conclusion. That is, YourStar's premise. All things being equal, homosxual marriage, IMO does NOT promote families.


    Tim-
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  8. #448
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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    What is significant statistically for you to use the term, lots? I don't about you, but almost, if not every parent I know wanted kids, the when, and why may not be as so clear cut among the families I know, but the question of children was never an after-thought. There are tons of situations whereby creating a family is not ideal, even for heterosexuals, mainly where the best interests of the child are concerned; but these are material, and also exceptional. Heterosexual marriage, and by extension homosexual marriage, pin the argument to certain intrinsic characteristics that one infers as important to the underlying conclusion. That is, YourStar's premise. All things being equal, homosxual marriage, IMO does NOT promote families.


    Tim-
    Wow, that was absolute sophistry. You said nothing.

    Also the word you were looking for was "immaterial" not "material". If you are going to practice mindless rhetoric then at least use the correct words.

    Also, if most parents wanted kids as much as you seem to claim, then abortion and adoption would not exist. You are not even presenting a decent or coherent argument anymore.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 02-09-11 at 02:03 PM.

  9. #449
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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Homosexuality, in and of itself does NOT promote family!
    Heterosexuality alone does not promote family. Just because it can lead to pregnancy does not mean it leads to family. Of course, you use a convoluted definition of family whereby a parent could kill, abondon, or maim their child and they would still be considered family, so I'm sure that point goes right over your head.

    And don't accuse people of equivocation when that is purely what you have practiced in this thread, very unskillfully I might add, with your made up definition of family.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 02-09-11 at 02:11 PM.

  10. #450
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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Heterosexuality alone does not promote family. Just because it can lead to pregnancy does not mean it leads to family. Of course, you use a convoluted definition of family whereby a parent could kill, abondon, or maim their child and they would still be considered family, so I'm sure that point goes right over your head. And don't accuse people of equivocation when that is purely what you have practiced in this thread, very unskillfully I might add.
    I have to agree. In fact, lots of married heterosexuals are getting abortions. So much higher than that is the gay couple who want to adopt.

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