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Thread: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

  1. #401
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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Not A family, but family. That is correct!

    You know folks, it's really not that complicated.


    Tim-
    So you think only dna-related families should be recognized?

  2. #402
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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Lets remove the frosting shall we?

    Why do you think you instinctually want to have children? Forget about technology for a moment, and lets assume that even hard core lesbians want, and long for children of their own. Now, if you couldn't have children without technological help, or if a woman sleeps with a man only for the "purpose" of having a child, what necessarily would be the driving force behind wanting to do so? Outside of an material, or selfish and unselfish needs, what "posses" someone to want children? Why is it we mate?


    Tim-
    Not everyone has such a need. It isn't a universal need. Some people do not want children. As such, it is a socialized need. It is something that we are raised to want.

  3. #403
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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    I don't think you can make that assertion. Just because someone is homosexual does not mean they have not engaged in heterosexual sex or procreated.

    Of course, that doesn't change the fact that it is your individual definition and it is so narrow that it is completely useless and irrelevant to this thread.

    I also think anyone who was raised outside of a traditional nuclear family might take offense to you claiming they weren't really raised in family.
    Ah, but this is where you have continually, and to my amusement I might add, made your error. I never said they weren't a family, only that they are not family in the strictest sense. There is no evolutionary advantage to an individual to fails to add to the gene-pool. Their, "family" stops there. They may contribute to the success of other families, but their's is now at an end. Some of their individualism is now, and forever lost to the genome.


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

  4. #404
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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Not everyone has such a need. It isn't a universal need. Some people do not want children. As such, it is a socialized need. It is something that we are raised to want.
    I see.. So you're of the opinon that something as fundamental as the drive to mate, and procreate is a "socialized need", and yet homosexuality is an inborn, innate condition not subject to any "socialized need"..

    Wow.. Is that what you really think? So now the engine that fired humanity is now a socialized mechanism, but homosexuality is not? Homosexuality is somehow in your mind, more fundamental to humanity? Hehehe.. You do see how ridiculous that sounds, right?


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

  5. #405
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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    I see.. So you're of the opinon that something as fundamental as the drive to mate, and procreate is a "socialized need", and yet homosexuality is an inborn, innate condition not subject to any "socialized need"..
    Typical Tim trick. You asked several different questions and I answered the first. Why do people want children? Because they are socialized to want children. Why do people want sex? Because they have a biological drive to have sex. Not every animal on this planet is conscious that having sex leads to having children. In fact some primitive human cultures that exist even today believe that sex has nothing to do with having children.

  6. #406
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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No, actually we are not but I will play.

    It is not adequate because the current marriage license sets up for two people to be each others closest relative. It says that the woman will make the decisions for the man and the man will make the decisions for the woman when one of the two is not able to make those decisions hisself/herself. It can easily be changed to allow a different man to replace the woman or a different woman to replace the man. The same does not work when you have more than two people involved because the marriage license does not get into specifics for any couple, it simply states which two people will be responsible for the decisions of each other. The same does not apply to when you have more than two people involved, because the current rules are specifically set up for two people, but the gender of those two people will not affect how those rules can be applied.

    Also, your example of two guys robbing a bank, getting married, and being protected against testifying is wrong on so many levels. First of all, they would have to be married to each other before they talked about the robbery at all, because the law only protects them from testifying on intimate relationship conversations that took place during the legal marriage. Second, they wouldn't be called to a stand to testify against each other if they were both involved in the crime anyway, because that would set them up for self incrimination, and is not allowed.

    BTW, I have stated many times that there should be some marriage contract available to polygamous families that gave them an opportunity to make them all family. It can't work with the current contract however, and it is the couples that want this who have the responsibility for coming up with a way to make it work for them, not the government. The gay community has it easy in this regard since the current marriage contract works fine for their relationship with one small change of adjusting the gender blocks of the marriage license so that it can be either two men, two women, or one man and one woman. No change in the actual application of the current marriage contract is necessary.

    Now that I have provided what you asked for (again), you can answer some of my questions. Instead of going off on things that I never brought up in this thread.
    Gay marriage is over 50 years in the making. It began with the slow process of repealing various cohabitation laws, and moved on to anti-sodomy laws.

    Now if a new Congress can make sweeping fundamental changes to the health-care system, so much easier would it be to assimilate marriage regulation to accommodate polygamy.

  7. #407
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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Ah, but this is where you have continually, and to my amusement I might add, made your error. I never said they weren't a family, only that they are not family in the strictest sense. There is no evolutionary advantage to an individual to fails to add to the gene-pool. Their, "family" stops there. They may contribute to the success of other families, but their's is now at an end. Some of their individualism is now, and forever lost to the genome.


    Tim-
    Biologists do not use the term "family" as you are trying to use it. As such, it is nothing but your personal defnition. Not the "strictest" sense of family, but Tim's made up definition of family.

  8. #408
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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    So you think only dna-related families should be recognized?
    On some levels, I believe that families that produce offspring of themselves are superior to those that cannot. Depends on how you measure superior? In this context I measure it in evolutionary terms.


    tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

  9. #409
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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Gay marriage is over 50 years in the making. It began with the slow process of repealing various cohabitation laws, and moved on to anti-sodomy laws.
    Not to overstate the fact, but even two different Roman emporers married men. Gay marriage has been around for a long, long time. In the United States, its about 50 years old.

    Now if a new Congress can make sweeping fundamental changes to the health-care system, so much easier would it be to assimilate marriage regulation to accommodate polygamy.
    Oh I have got to hear this. Please go into detail on this one Jerry. I'm just so excited to hear all the specifics on this one.

  10. #410
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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    On some levels, I believe that families that produce offspring of themselves are superior to those that cannot. Depends on how you measure superior? In this context I measure it in evolutionary terms.


    tim-
    Evolution favors superior social structures.

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