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Thread: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

  1. #131
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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    I was talking about the common language between LGBT people, and what people refer to LGBT couples as. It's not just LGBT people who refer to their significant other as partners. I personally don't.
    It's a difference in life experiences, I suppose. I've never met a straight couple who referred to their significant other as "partner". "Partner" is what you call a co-owner in your business or legal firm. The term denotes professionalism, not personal intimacy. When a gay says to me "this is my partner" they're saying "this is my professional associate". Even the Air Force's "wing-man" or the Army's "battle-buddy" is a closer relationship than "partner".

    Why not use the vocabulary everyone else uses so that we know what that person is to you? So you're both the same sex...we're supposed to overlook that because you allege you're just a variation on a theme. Fine, another variation on a theme is a mixed couple. Ebonics jokes aside, a black man doesn't have a different word for a white girlfriend than he has for a black girlfriend. His labels describe the relationship, not the race.

    So to does "partner" describe the relationship. It describes professional distance and necessarily precludes religious and political elements, with financial profit being the mutual goal. A small business.

    This is one way that gays are perceived as exploiters, not equal participants.

  2. #132
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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    It's a difference in life experiences, I suppose. I've never met a straight couple who referred to their significant other as "partner". "Partner" is what you call a co-owner in your business or legal firm. The term denotes professionalism, not personal intimacy. When a gay says to me "this is my partner" they're saying "this is my professional associate". Even the Air Force's "wing-man" or the Army's "battle-buddy" is a closer relationship than "partner".

    Why not use the vocabulary everyone else uses so that we know what that person is to you? So you're both the same sex...we're supposed to overlook that because you allege you're just a variation on a theme. Fine, another variation on a theme is a mixed couple. Ebonics jokes aside, a black man doesn't have a different word for a white girlfriend than he has for a black girlfriend. His labels describe the relationship, not the race.

    So to does "partner" describe the relationship. It describes professional distance and necessarily precludes religious and political elements, with financial profit being the mutual goal. A small business.

    This is one way that gays are perceived as exploiters, not equal participants.
    You misunderstood me, I was saying that other people don't refer to LGBT people's significant others as wife/husband, but refer to them as partners. I've never heard a straight person say "hey there is Julie, and her wife Natalie", but they say "hey, there is her partner Natalie"

    Also your partner analogy is a big stretch, just because some people use a different word doesn't mean that the relationship is any different then a hetero relationship, besides the fact that the members are of the same sex. And I fail to see how we are trying to exploit anything, when does equality equal exploitation?
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  3. #133
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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    You misunderstood me, I was saying that other people don't refer to LGBT people's significant others as wife/husband, but refer to them as partners. I've never heard a straight person say "hey there is Julie, and her wife Natalie", but they say "hey, there is her partner Natalie"
    When you say "hey, there is her partner Natalie", I hear "hey, there is her professional associate Natalie"; or "hey, there is her [business] partner Natalie".

    What I don't understand is why not just say "hey, there is her girlfriend Natalie"; or "hey, there is her fiance' Natalie"; or "hey, there is her wife Natalie".


    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Also your partner analogy is a big stretch, just because some people use a different word doesn't mean that the relationship is any different then a hetero relationship, besides the fact that the members are of the same sex.
    No I agree. When you say "partner" I'm assuming you mean the same kind of "partner" as a hetero couple; that being one of professionalism, not personal intimacy.

    Different words are used to describe different relationships, so if you're using a different word, you're describing a different relationship. A "wife" is a female spouse regardless of whether she's married to a man or a woman. A "partner" is a professional associate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    And I fail to see how we are trying to exploit anything, when does equality equal exploitation?
    I'm pretty sure I was careful to say "This is one way that gays are perceived as exploiters, not equal participants."

    I made a statement regarding how you are perceived, not how you actually are.
    Last edited by Jerry; 02-07-11 at 03:18 PM.

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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    When you use a different term you reaffirm anti-SSM's argument that homosexuals have a different kind of relationship, not merely a variation on a theme. Every instance "partner" is used, you're admitting your relationships are not like those constitutionally protected against discrimination.

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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    When you say "hey, there is her partner Natalie", I hear "hey, there is her professional associate Natalie"; or "hey, there is her [business] partner Natalie".

    What I don't understand is why not just say "hey, there is her girlfriend Natalie"; or "hey, there is her fiance' Natalie"; or "hey, there is her wife Natalie".
    If that is what you hear, then that is your fault for not understanding context. And I don't say partner, as I said before partners are for science projects, I use girlfriend/wife/husband/boyfriend. But that is what some people say, and that is how most straight people refer to LGBT couples, so don't pretend that it's just within the LGBT community that couples are referred to in that way.


    No I agree. When you say "partner" I'm assuming you mean the same kind of "partner" as a hetero couple; that being one of professionalism, not personal intimacy.

    Different words are used to describe different relationships, so if you're using a different word, you're describing a different relationship. A "wife" is a female spouse regardless of whether she's married to a man or a woman. A "partner" is a professional associate.
    I agree, but you have to understand the reason why people use the term partner. It is because society has repeatedly told us that our relationships aren't equal to straight relationships, and using the terms wife/husband in regards to same sex relationships was considered offensive, and not accurate years ago. Hence the change in the vernacular.

    I'm pretty sure I was careful to say "This is one way that gays are perceived as exploiters, not equal participants."

    I made a statement regarding how you are perceived, not how you actually are.
    I still fail to see how we could be perceived as exploiters, what would we be exploiting?
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  6. #136
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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    We wanted to place our union in the context of a Christian life.
    Why might that not also apply to a same-sex couple?
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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Why might that not also apply to a same-sex couple?
    In the context of a Christian life, a gay couple must part ways.

  8. #138
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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    I agree, but you have to understand the reason why people use the term partner. It is because society has repeatedly told us that our relationships aren't equal to straight relationships, and using the terms wife/husband in regards to same sex relationships was considered offensive, and not accurate years ago. Hence the change in the vernacular.
    You changed the vernacular so as to agree with society that your relationships are fundamentally different.

    If society is unjustly discriminating against you, why would you worry about offending them? What respect of yours has society earned that you should regard with civility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    I still fail to see how we could be perceived as exploiters, what would we be exploiting?
    You would be exploiting the same legal system that so many heteros exploit today, and for all the same legal benefits, without regard for how your actions contribute to the 50% divorce rate, just as so many heteros do.
    Last edited by Jerry; 02-07-11 at 03:54 PM.

  9. #139
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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    In the context of a Christian life, a gay couple must part ways.
    Not true, not true at all.
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  10. #140
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    Re: Does Same Sex Marriage promote family?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    In the context of a Christian life, a gay couple must part ways.
    In your particular brand of Christian life, perhaps. I know many Gay Christians, many who have had their relationships blessed in church.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

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