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A Simple Question -

Do you trust the federal government to do what's in your best interest

  • Total voters
    63
Helllllllllllllllllllllllllllll no. The "why" should be obvious.
 
TheGirlNextDoor said:
I don't see how. I suppose I could have asked the question and then given eighteen different answers to suit the hundreds of political parties out there. I framed the question as an American citizen would frame it.

Do you trust the federal government to decide what is best for you. Either you do or you do not.

I trust them as far as I could throw them. There is a history in this country of our elected officials doing what lines their pockets FIRST with little to no regard to how it impacts the citizenry.
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Sorry. As both a moral and situational relativist, I see your question as a false dichotomy and as simplfying a very complex issue. I also see a difference between the concept of government, those who run it, and individuals who work inside it.
 
Mellie said:
Helllllllllllllllllllllllllllll no. The "why" should be obvious.
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It is to me, but apparently... it's not so obvious for others. That is why I started this thread.
 
Alright, before I dive in and read the thread I will answer the question posed.

I have no expectations for the government to look out for my best interest, regardless of whether it is functioning like an ox cart with square wheels, or a perfectly tuned Ferrari. In fact, in an ideal perfectly ran government I would have LESS expectations of it to look out for my best interest. In its ideal the Government should be trying to maximize actions that are the most beneficial to the people as a whole, and oftentimes this will contradict what is in MY best interest.

edit: do I trust it to do what is in my best interest? absolutely not since I do not have that expectation of it, and unfortunately I also have little trust in it it to consistently do what is in the best interest of the people either.
 
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CaptainCourtesy said:
Yes, I believe that. I also agree with what you are saying, for the most part. I see government as a concept and the the people who work in government as two different things.

Bottom line. I would trust the government to do what's in my best interest more than I would trust private organizations, basically because the premise of government is for the people, whereas the premise of private organizations is for themselves. Basic definitions. Doesn't mean I trust government a whole lot... and it depends on the situation, the issue, and who is making the decisions. This is why this is a complex question, and cannot be resolved in a yes/no answer.
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if your best interest is contrary to a given corporation you normally can avoid that corporation

if your best interests conflict with the government you are royally screwed
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Sorry. As both a moral and situational relativist, I see your question as a false dichotomy and as simplfying a very complex issue. I also see a difference between the concept of government, those who run it, and individuals who work inside it.
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It's only as complex as you make it. There are politicians [sic] that do indeed, answer to their constituents and seem to have their overall best interests at heart. However... the political 'machine' is not to be trusted and SHOULD be questioned.

I am talking the overall entity known as the 'federal government'. I am in no way, shape or form saying that all elected officials are corrupt and/or aren't actually working for 'we the people'.
 
TurtleDude said:
when in rome. and you have noted you really aren't a liberal on all issues
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That's true, but I also don't see personal responsibility as being a non-liberal position. I see personal responsibility as being global, across party lines. I think how it's applied and seen is what separates the right from the left.

most of the hard core left -at least the leaders-think the average person cannot be trusted to look out for themselves and thus the wise elites must
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Personally, I think most of those of the hardcore left are just like the hardcore right. They just want to beat the other guy.

But, in truth, I would prefer to trust experts hired to make GLOBAL decisions, than trust the average person to make them. The average person is only concerned with themselves. Those experts in government have to be concerned with how the entire system interacts.

many of the rank and file left believes the same thing too
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Not at all. Most of the rank and file lefties believe my second paragraph above. You have become jaded simply because you spend FAR too much time talking/arguing with far left hacks and not enough discussing with rank and file lefties.

now it is true that some libs like my brother believes in personal responsbility-he's a "lib" because he is a pagan and hates the religious right
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Lots of libs believe in personal responsibility, usually inside a global structure. Look around here... most of the more mainstream on the left see this.
 
TheGirlNextDoor said:
It is to me, but apparently... it's not so obvious for others. That is why I started this thread.
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That is because you asked a question with only one real answer. It doesn't really make any points though.
 
TheGirlNextDoor said:
It is to me, but apparently... it's not so obvious for others. That is why I started this thread.
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It is a simple question. I knew what my answer would be as soon as I read it.
 
X Factor said:
A private business has never taken something from me that I didn't voluntarily give to them. The same is not true of the government.
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A private business has never done something for me that was not an ancillary issue... the primary issue being doing something for themselves, first. The same is not true of the government.
 
TurtleDude said:
if your best interest is contrary to a given corporation you normally can avoid that corporation
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If my best interest is contrary to a given corporation, I will not always know this to avoid that corporation.

if your best interests conflict with the government you are royally screwed
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If my best interest conflicts with the government, I can accept that as an occasional occurance... which is the price we all pay for living in a large society.
 
X Factor said:
It is a simple question. I knew what my answer would be as soon as I read it.
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So did basically every one. That is actually a flaw of the question.

Imagine I started a poll "is air good for us"? The answer would be a foregone conclusion. Now does that mean that all anti-pollution regulations are good?
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
A private business has never done something for me that was not an ancillary issue... the primary issue being doing something for themselves, first. The same is not true of the government.
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Well, I don't need a business to "care" for me. As far as the govt, I'd rather be left alone than cared for.
 
TheGirlNextDoor said:
It's only as complex as you make it.
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Disagree. The complexity of the issue is based on the complexity of government and government operations... which are complex and diverse.

There are politicians [sic] that do indeed, answer to their constituents and seem to have their overall best interests at heart. However... the political 'machine' is not to be trusted and SHOULD be questioned.
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Trusted and questioned are two different things.

I am talking the overall entity known as the 'federal government'. I am in no way, shape or form saying that all elected officials are corrupt and/or aren't actually working for 'we the people'.
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As am I. Which is why the question is so complex.
 
X Factor said:
Well, I don't need a business to "care" for me. As far as the govt, I'd rather be left alone than cared for.
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Now you are spinning things. You do need the government to take care of the country. Part of taking care of the country is ensuring that the citizens of the country have as many tools to success as possible. That makes the country stronger, and makes it easier for the individuals to look out for themselves.
 
X Factor said:
Well, I don't need a business to "care" for me. As far as the govt, I'd rather be left alone than cared for.
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You need private business to do things for you just as much as you do government. The only exception is if you "live off the grid". Private business is IN business to make profit... to help themselves. To me, that automatically makes me question whether their acts are in my best interest. I have no issue with profit, but the desire to obtain it effects how one approaches a situation. Government's job is to manage things globally, not make profit. I am not talking about individuals; I am talking about the institution.
 
Redress said:
Now you are spinning things. You do need the government to take care of the country. Part of taking care of the country is ensuring that the citizens of the country have as many tools to success as possible. That makes the country stronger, and makes it easier for the individuals to look out for themselves.
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No Redress, I don't agree with this at all. I don't expect the government give me any tools. The best thing it can do is give me room to make my own tools and not confiscate them later. Hope this makes sense. I may be losing myself in the metaphor.
 
X Factor said:
No Redress, I don't agree with this at all. I don't expect the government give me any tools. The best thing it can do is give me room to make my own tools and not confiscate them later. Hope this makes sense. I may be losing myself in the metaphor.
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Really? You don't want public roads? You want completely unregulated business? See why talking in absolutes does not help your argument?
 
X Factor said:
No Redress, I don't agree with this at all. I don't expect the government give me any tools. The best thing it can do is give me room to make my own tools and not confiscate them later. Hope this makes sense. I may be losing myself in the metaphor.
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I think you are actually saying something very similar to what Redress is saying. The tools don't have to come from the government; they can come from any source, sometimes government, sometimes not. It's government's job to both make sure that you have room to create those tools, but also to make sure that the tools you create do not harm anyone else or society as a whole.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
You need private business to do things for you just as much as you do government. The only exception is if you "live off the grid". Private business is IN business to make profit... to help themselves. To me, that automatically makes me question whether their acts are in my best interest. I have no issue with profit, but the desire to obtain it effects how one approaches a situation.
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Here's the difference. You are the one who decides whether or not you will be 'doing business' with a privately owned entity, correct? Therefore the power to decide what is best for you - is up to you. Profiting from someone is only effective if that someone is willing to pay for said product or service.

Government's job is to manage things globally, not make profit. I am not talking about individuals; I am talking about the institution.
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They don't make a profit per se, but they do make decisions that impact all of us financially. Again, we don't have a choice in whether or not to 'do business' with the 'institution' of the federal government, now do we.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
I think you are actually saying something very similar to what Redress is saying. The tools don't have to come from the government; they can come from any source, sometimes government, sometimes not. It's government's job to both make sure that you have room to create those tools, but also to make sure that the tools you create do not harm anyone else or society as a whole.
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Not exactly what I am saying, no. As I mentioned in the previous post, simple things like roads are part of our tools to success. Hell, having a military to provide for national defense is a tool for success, since without it we would individually most likely now or soon have fewer routes to succeed. Public schools are a very strong tool for success. Police and Fire protection likewise.
 
TheGirlNextDoor said:
Here's the difference. You are the one who decides whether or not you will be 'doing business' with a privately owned entity, correct? Therefore the power to decide what is best for you - is up to you. Profiting from someone is only effective if that someone is willing to pay for said product or service.
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So if I want cable I can call some one in this area other than Charter?

They don't make a profit per se, but they do make decisions that impact all of us financially. Again, we don't have a choice in whether or not to 'do business' with the 'institution' of the federal government, now do we.
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You are not doing business. The relationship between citizens and the government, and between citizens and businesses are entirely different.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
You need private business to do things for you just as much as you do government. The only exception is if you "live off the grid". Private business is IN business to make profit... to help themselves. To me, that automatically makes me question whether their acts are in my best interest. I have no issue with profit, but the desire to obtain it effects how one approaches a situation. Government's job is to manage things globally, not make profit. I am not talking about individuals; I am talking about the institution.
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The relationship I have with private business is a more equal one. It's usually mutually beneficial. They want my money and I want their product. I don't care if they have my best interest at heart. I'll take care of that. The problem with the government is when they decide someone else's best interest matters more than mine.
 
Redress said:
Really? You don't want public roads? You want completely unregulated business? See why talking in absolutes does not help your argument?
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I don't think I am speaking in absolutes. I don't deny there's a role for govt, but a govt that oversteps it's bounds is far more dangerous to me as a citizen than a business that does.
 
X Factor said:
I don't think I am speaking in absolutes. I don't deny there's a role for govt, but a govt that oversteps it's bounds is far more dangerous to me as a citizen than a business that does.
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Really? Ever fight with an insurance company for payment on coverage? That put me at more risk than the government ever will.
 
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