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Is This Going Too Far?

Are These Additional Restrictions on Abortion Funding Going Too Far?

  • Total voters
    24
Redress said:
Why do "pro-life" people prefer that label to "anti-abortion rights"?
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I could care less if you call me pro-life or anti-abortion.
 
Your Star said:
It's not my fault that you can't understand what I am saying to you is that I don't personally support abortion, and that your definition doesn't trump my personal beliefs.
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That is not my definition. I do not own the dictionary companies nor am I on any board who decided what word means what.It is a fact that pro-abortion means one who supports legalized abortion. That definition does not say that you have to run out and have one or recommend that every one get one.
 
jamesrage said:
That is not my definition. I do not own the dictionary companies nor am I on any board who decided what word means what.It is a fact that pro-abortion means one who supports legalized abortion. That definition does not say that you have to run out and have one or recommend that every one get one.
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The only thing you are demonstrating here is that you don't have the capacity to understand nuance, and only see the world in black, and white. Also you are assuming why I am pro-choice is because I think abortion should be a right, which couldn't be further from the truth.
 
Redress said:
Why do "pro-life" people prefer that label to "anti-abortion rights"?
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For the same reason "pro-choice" people prefer that to "pro-abortion." It's inherently better to be "pro" something and "anti" something.
 
jamesrage said:
Part of debate is presenting facts. Going "Oh I do not like this definition so I am just going to make up my own" is not a good debate tactic.
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FACT: Your Star has stated that she believes abortion should be legalized.
FACT: Your star has stated that she believes federal money should be made available, in certain cases, to fund abortions.
FACT: Your Star has stated that she personally would never get one (and i'm pretty sure she probably won't need one unless she wants to do artificial insemination or something like that).

Let's just start there, rather than whatever label or name you want to apply to her position, because names are just that: names. Let's start with reality first.
 
Dutch said:
For the same reason "pro-choice" people prefer that to "pro-abortion." It's inherently better to be "pro" something and "anti" something.
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Not sure about that. I'm anti-initiating-wars-of-aggression-in-the-middle-east. I'm not pro-let's-not-spread-freedom-and-democracy-with-armed-force-wherever-we-choose-to.
 
Your Star said:
The only thing you are demonstrating here is that you don't have the capacity to understand nuance, and only see the world in black, and white. Also you are assuming why I am pro-choice is because I think abortion should be a right, which couldn't be further from the truth.
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Why would someone support something they know to be wrong?
 
Your Star said:
The only thing you are demonstrating here is that you don't have the capacity to understand nuance, and only see the world in black, and white. Also you are assuming why I am pro-choice is because I think abortion should be a right, which couldn't be further from the truth.
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I understand nuance, however the net effect of your "nuanced" position on this issue is you will support abortion. In the end you cannot escape from that. You "stand" with those you want to continue this abomination, this holocaust, this state sanctioned killing.
 
X Factor said:
Why would someone support something they know to be wrong?
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I don't think she believes allowing people to make moral decisions for themselves is wrong.
 
X Factor said:
Why would someone support something they know to be wrong?
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Because reality is far more complex and nuanced than that. Why do people who claim to value human life support some wars, despite knowing that in all wars the possibility that at least one innocent civilian will be killed is almost guaranteed? Because reality is more complex, and less black-and-white, than people want to make it out to be.
 
X Factor said:
Why would someone support something they know to be wrong?
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Because the societal effect of having abortion illegal is worse than the society effect of having it legal. Also having abortion legal does not necessarily say abortion is okay, or right, it just gives people the choice to have that option. Hence the term pro-choice. And when you are dealing with laws it is best to look at the society effect the law will make, not if you personally disagree with it. I've discussed this with you before.
 
Redress said:
I don't think she believes allowing people to make moral decisions for themselves is wrong.
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She says she believes the act itself is wrong. Most choicers say that. Seems very contradictory to me.
 
X Factor said:
Why would someone support something they know to be wrong?
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X, let's put it this way.
I'm not one of these people, but let's just say hypothetically I believe that all guns are inherently evil and nobody should have a gun. But I'm not going to support repeal of the 2nd amendment because I also believe those people have their own belief systems and their own rights and own peculiar situations, in which a gun might be necessary.
 
Your Star said:
Because the societal effect of having abortion illegal is worse than the society effect of having it legal. Also having abortion legal does not necessarily say abortion is okay, or right, it just gives people the choice to have that option. Hence the term pro-choice. And when you are dealing with laws it is best to look at the society effect the law will make, not if you personally disagree with it. I've discussed this with you before.
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I think the same could be said of many people who are for the legalization of MJ, even if they personally believe doing drugs is wrong. Your analogy is perhaps better than mine lol.
 
StillBallin75 said:
Not sure about that. I'm anti-initiating-wars-of-aggression-in-the-middle-east. I'm not pro-let's-not-spread-freedom-and-democracy-with-armed-force-wherever-we-choose-to.
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Your Star said:
Because the societal effect of having abortion illegal is worse than the society effect of having it legal. Also having abortion legal does not necessarily say abortion is okay, or right, it just gives people the choice to have that option. Hence the term pro-choice. And when you are dealing with laws it is best to look at the society effect the law will make, not if you personally disagree with it. I've discussed this with you before.
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What about standing up for what you think is right?
 
StillBallin75 said:
I think the same could be said of many people who are for the legalization of MJ, even if they personally believe doing drugs is wrong. Your analogy is perhaps better than mine lol.
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Oh, the same arguments in favor of abortion are indeed used for legalizing drugs. They usually come down to, "well, people are going to do it anyway."
 
Your Star said:
Because the societal effect of having abortion illegal is worse than the society effect of having it legal. Also having abortion legal does not necessarily say abortion is okay, or right, it just gives people the choice to have that option. Hence the term pro-choice. And when you are dealing with laws it is best to look at the society effect the law will make, not if you personally disagree with it. I've discussed this with you before.
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yeah, we might end up with more black and poor white folk wandering around.


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X Factor said:
Oh, the same arguments in favor of abortion are indeed used for legalizing drugs. They usually come down to, "well, people are going to do it anyway."
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Same with guns, as I said before. One could believe guns are completely evil, yet if one supports banning guns you would have a thriving black market with no controls, very probably leading to even more violence. But personally I'm rather conservative on the issue of abortion if you want to look back at post #92 for my own position.
 
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StillBallin75 said:
X, let's put it this way.
I'm not one of these people, but let's just say hypothetically I believe that all guns are inherently evil and nobody should have a gun. But I'm not going to support repeal of the 2nd amendment because I also believe those people have their own belief systems and their own rights and own peculiar situations, in which a gun might be necessary.
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Do you actually know anyone like this? Most firearm phobics do want to take guns away from everybody.
 
X Factor said:
Oh, the same arguments in favor of abortion are indeed used for legalizing drugs. They usually come down to, "well, people are going to do it anyway."
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Yeah, as if we would have had 50 million illegal abortions in the last few decades.
 
X Factor said:
She says she believes the act itself is wrong. Most choicers say that. Seems very contradictory to me.
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Only because you have not looked at it closely enough. I don't have to like something to think it should be legal. If asked, I would advise in most cases against having an abortion. However, I think that since it is a moral issue that the country is divided on, that it is best left up to the individual to make the ultimate choice.

Her position is actually quite consistent.
 
StillBallin75 said:
Same with guns, as I said before. One could believe guns are completely evil, yet if one supports banning guns you would have a thriving black market with no controls, very probably leading to even more violence.
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See, SB, I think the "people are going to do it anyway" argument is a terrible one. People will continue to drive drunk too, so should we just make it legal?
 
StillBallin75 said:
FACT: Your Star has stated that she believes abortion should be legalized.
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Which makes her pro-abortion.If your pro-gay marriage does not mean you have to run out and engage in same sex relations? Does being pro-2nd amendment mean that you have to run out and buy a gun? Does owning a gun mean that you are pro-2nd amendment? You can be a proponent of something and not have to partake in what you are a proponent of.


FACT: Your Star has stated that she personally would never get one (and i'm pretty sure she probably won't need one unless she wants to do artificial insemination or something like that).
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Which has nothing to do with the definition of pro-abortion.

Let's just start there, rather than whatever label or name you want to apply to her position, because names are just that: names. Let's start with reality first.
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She is the one trying to ignore the reality that she is pro-abortion.
 
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