View Poll Results: Is Obama A War Criminal

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  • Yes

    46 53.49%
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    37 43.02%
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    3 3.49%
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Thread: Is Obama A War Criminal

  1. #81
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    Re: Is Obama A War Criminal

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Alright, alright. Not trying to get frustratedhere. I just don't see how you can't see the commen sense in this.
    There's nothing common about good sense. Many a person has thougth something sounded good and made sense only to find it was flawed, majorly flawed. You can't spread freedom or democracy at gun pont. And the fact is, iraq slowed down the movement and did not advance it.

    This is a pointless argument because Iraq is not the world. Nor have we ever conquered anybody. We have never assimilated or colonized. We have never kept captured territory. Iraq is no different. However, remaking the world is exactly what we have been doing since World War II. Notice how we were the most powerful nation on earth after World War I and still insisted that Europeans form into the League of Nations? Notice how we were themost powerful nation in history after World War II and still insisted on the creation of the United Nations? In both events, we proved what a powerful nation should do, which is empower the weak and unite the globe. For the decades after World War II, "McWorld" infected every corner of the earth and people enthusiastically invited the American way of life into their borders and jumped on our path. Globalization is largely due to the American will to change the world.
    No, Iraq is not the world. but it is the country we invaded needlessly. And we will stay there. So, for our desires, if not need, we have conquored. Iraq would not have allowed us a base otherwise.

    And it is more than a little imperialistic to see us as remaking the world, especially by force. Woudl we really apporve of any other country, say Iran or Russia or China, remaking the world for us?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  2. #82
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    Re: Is Obama A War Criminal

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    But back to Iraq, we are hardly forcing the wotld to change by force. Considering that the entire Middle East has had a modernist streak about it since the beginning of European colonialism, we are hardly forcing Iraq ro change. We just removed the thorn that held the region in check. I dare you to apply some common sense here..... Do you honestly believe that Al-Queda bombs and insurgent savagry upon their own fellow Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan haven't had an impact on the regional Muslims as a whole? That modernist voices haven't been using this to further their social goals against their oppressive governments (governments that give their radical crowd no way other than violence to express themselves)? That somehow, A-Queda's complete inability to recruit throughout the Arab world is not somehow contributed to this social and political change inside Iraq and their willingness to murder in the name of religious perversion and oppression? These are the dramatic changes that have gone on. In the end, we may owe our long term security to all those Muslims that were forced to look in the mirror everytime another 10 or 20 died from another Muslims hands. Before the Internet and international television, Muslims could look the other way and seek the foriegn devil to blame. Now they can't. Only peoplen the West keep harping on their inabilities to be responsible for themselves and blame Western cultures for daring to remove their dictators and oppressions.
    If you claim Iraq was to change or effect any part of the world, you are using force to change the world. Invading Iraq was use of force. And removing one thorn to replace it with another is hardly endearing to moderates in the ME. Many of them consider us a worse option than the thorns removed.

    And we don't remove dictators. We never have. That is again rather arorgant to see us as not only the world policeman, but the world savior. As I said, we didn't have another country come in and free us from Brittan. A people takes their country, not have it given to them. It is one thing to help a people, but another to invade and use them, and then say, "oh, BTW, you'
    re free now, but we're staying in this huge base we built."

    No, I don't see your argument at all.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  3. #83
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    Re: Is Obama A War Criminal

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I don't care who was aware of it. Prosecute her too as far as I'm concerned. The point is, it was a crime.
    ....and mr obama and his renditions, incarcerations without trial, evesdropping, and drone attacks that regularly kill inocents? Is mr obama a war criminal, professor?
    He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. ~ Winston Churchill

  4. #84
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    Re: Is Obama A War Criminal

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    ....and mr obama and his renditions, incarcerations without trial, evesdropping, and drone attacks that regularly kill inocents? Is mr obama a war criminal, professor?
    I'd say most of things could potentially classify Obama as a war criminal, except for drone strikes.

  5. #85
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    Re: Is Obama A War Criminal

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I believe that waterboarding IS torture (how is it not?). I also have no problem with acknowledging that Pelosi lied on this issue and went along with it.
    Well, alrightie then!! let's start rounding up all american leaders starting with anyone still alive connected to fdr's administration because that man committed the most awful atrocities in american history. We might as well dig up anyone left from the truman administration as well. Nuking innocent japanese citizens just for nothing.....shame, shame.
    He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. ~ Winston Churchill

  6. #86
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    Re: Is Obama A War Criminal

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I think Guy was insisting that it SHOULD be done, not that it CAN.
    That would be my point, we pretty much need to start thinking about being "realistic" here. In my fantasy world I'm a lot younger and my wife looks suspiciously like a young sophia loren. {sigh}

    Last edited by Dutch; 01-28-11 at 12:32 PM.
    He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. ~ Winston Churchill

  7. #87
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    Re: Is Obama A War Criminal

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    ....and mr obama and his renditions, incarcerations without trial, evesdropping, and drone attacks that regularly kill inocents? Is mr obama a war criminal, professor?
    Rendition is wrong. I oppose it. And I express this with my representative often. Has Obama incarcerated anyone new? The Bush problem will not be easily settled, but if he continues this practice with new prisoners, then he too would be open to the same criticism. And if he breaks the law with easedropping that too is breaking the law. He should be held just as accountable. The drone attacks don't qualify, didn't under Bush, but like with Bush, just as stupid. We cost ourselves more than we gain. So, I oppose those as well.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  8. #88
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    Re: Is Obama A War Criminal

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    That would be my point, we pretty much need to start thinking about being "realistic" here. In my fantasy world I'm a lot younger and my wife looks suspiciously like a young sophia loren. {sigh}
    Well, Guy IS a Libertarian.

  9. #89
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    Re: Is Obama A War Criminal

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    Well, alrightie then!! let's start rounding up all american leaders starting with anyone still alive connected to fdr's administration because that man committed the most awful atrocities in american history. We might as well dig up anyone left from the truman administration as well. Nuking innocent japanese citizens just for nothing.....shame, shame.
    I don't have any problem with this. Except that those individuals are already dead. Japanese internment and the atomic bombs were huge atrocities.

  10. #90
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    Re: Is Obama A War Criminal

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Well, Guy IS a Libertarian.
    Ok, point taken.

    He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. ~ Winston Churchill

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