View Poll Results: Terms Limits.

Voters
42. You may not vote on this poll
  • Limits on the House

    0 0%
  • Limits on the Senate

    0 0%
  • Both

    36 85.71%
  • No limits.

    6 14.29%
Page 6 of 9 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 81

Thread: Term limits on the House and the Senate?

  1. #51
    Sage
    samsmart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,316
    Blog Entries
    37

    Re: Term limits on the House and the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    The president of the United States has term limits. Voters don't get to keep the same president just because they like the job he's doing, and there is a reason for that. The founding fathers wanted to limit presidential power, thereby limiting potential for corruption and long-term influence. Those are the same reasons we should limit congressional and senate terms.
    I know that the thread has gone on for quite a while since this post, so I don't know if this has been addressed, but I would like to point out the differences between term limits for executive positions and term limits for legislative positions.

    Yes, you absolutely have a point that the Presidency and state governorships have term limits. But there's a reason for that: executive authority is more powerful than legislative authority.

    For example, Congress writes broad laws. The President can then narrowly define those laws during his administration through the use of executive orders. In some cases, the President can even use executive orders to declare the President's position that portions of laws are unconstitutional, and therefore will be ignored by his administration. So depending on how much Congress flexes it's muscles, the Presidency gives one person an incredible amount of power.

    This is why there are term limits for the Presidency - while the position holds a great amount of power, a person is limited by how much time they can serve in that position.

    Legislative authority is different, however. Legislative authority gives a person the power to write laws. However, unlike the Presidency who holds ultimate absolute authority, legislative authority is diluted among 435 Representatives and 100 Senators. All of them take part in the writing of laws, and then bills are passed if only a majority in each chamber votes for it.

    So a single Representative and a single Senator does not wield nearly as much power as a single President does. Therefore the argument that they wield just as much power isn't quite true.

    So that's the difference between why executive positions have term limits but legislative positions usually don't.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  2. #52
    Sage
    samsmart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,316
    Blog Entries
    37

    Re: Term limits on the House and the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I agree that what you said makes a lot of sense but here is where I see a fault with the current practice. The longer a congressman stays in office, the more likely they are to be corrupted by money and power. Many times the voters are unaware of this corruption unless they are caught so they are not removed in an election, term after term.
    Actually, it's more likely that freshman Congressmen and Senators, especially those who have never held another public office before, will inadvertently get involved in corruption and corporate influence because of their naievete and inexperience in dealing with lobbyists.

    Experienced legislators, however, know which things they can accept and which things they aren't allowed to accept in order to stave off corruption. Which is an argument against term limits.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  3. #53
    Dungeon Master
    Hooter Babe

    DiAnna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Northern California
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,675
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Term limits on the House and the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    That's OK. Here's a question for you and Catawba, since we're the ones talking here, currently. Since the two of you seem to be for term limits in order to limit the power of special interests and corporate interests, what are some ways that the two of you think that these two issues can be managed both with and without term limits?
    I honestly don't think it can be managed without term limits. Lobbyists and corporate bribes (aka campaign contributions) are the driving force in the halls of congress nowadays. Our congressional/senatorial representatives are more concerned with their campaign warchests than they are about passing legislation that is in the best interests of the country as a whole. Our congress/senate is controlled not by the people they represent but by the corporate/lobby interests that can give them the cash they need to win the next election... and the next, and the next, and the next. They don't care about the jobs illegal immigrants are taking and the employers who employ illegals with impunity. . They care about the hispanic vote. They don't care about the jobs flowing overseas or the fact that unions have outpriced the global market, and NAFTA has turned our blue collar workers into unemployed welfare recipients. They care about corporate campaign contributions.

    Americans are no longer the priority of congress/senate. Keeping themselves in office by whatever means is necessary has become the priority. Term limits would at least eliminate this clearly self-indulgent motive of ignoring constituents/populace needs in order to solidify one's personal monetary base to forge a life-long career in government, leading to retirement in a private lobbyist group. We are electing, re-electing and creating a flow chart of representatives who serve only themselves, not the constituents who have elected and re-elected them.

  4. #54
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: Term limits on the House and the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I think the "average Joe" would see the direct connection between the things that I mentioned and corruption FAR more than the connection between term limits and corruption. So, yes. I think though both would have a very slight chance, the suggestions that I made... and you, too, would have a better chance of passing than term limits.
    I agree but I think the average Joe would go for either or both. The hurdle would be getting Congress to pass the new rules you suggested. Don't get me wrong, I am for the kind of reform you have suggested. It just seems as much out of reach as term limits.




    I think it did, but I also think the rules have changed since the Clinton years... and probably since Reagan. The partisan rhetoric has become so intense from both sides that you never know what is real, what is a witch-hunt, and what is false covering of one's President's ass.
    It seems the same with members of Congress. Enjoyed the discussion but I must retire. Good night sir!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  5. #55
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: Term limits on the House and the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    Actually, it's more likely that freshman Congressmen and Senators, especially those who have never held another public office before, will inadvertently get involved in corruption and corporate influence because of their naievete and inexperience in dealing with lobbyists.

    Experienced legislators, however, know which things they can accept and which things they aren't allowed to accept in order to stave off corruption. Which is an argument against term limits.
    Perhaps, but that didn't seem to do much to keep Ted Stevens and Charlie Rangel in line, just the two most recent examples I can think of, which is an argument for term limits.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  6. #56
    Global Moderator
    I'm a Jedi Master, Yo

    CaptainCourtesy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:54 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    152,759

    Re: Term limits on the House and the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    I honestly don't think it can be managed without term limits. Lobbyists and corporate bribes (aka campaign contributions) are the driving force in the halls of congress nowadays. Our congressional/senatorial representatives are more concerned with their campaign warchests than they are about passing legislation that is in the best interests of the country as a whole. Our congress/senate is controlled not by the people they represent but by the corporate/lobby interests that can give them the cash they need to win the next election... and the next, and the next, and the next. They don't care about the jobs illegal immigrants are taking and the employers who employ illegals with impunity. . They care about the hispanic vote. They don't care about the jobs flowing overseas or the fact that unions have outpriced the global market, and NAFTA has turned our blue collar workers into unemployed welfare recipients. They care about corporate campaign contributions.

    Americans are no longer the priority of congress/senate. Keeping themselves in office by whatever means is necessary has become the priority. Term limits would at least eliminate this clearly self-indulgent motive of ignoring constituents/populace needs in order to solidify one's personal monetary base to forge a life-long career in government, leading to retirement in a private lobbyist group. We are electing, re-electing and creating a flow chart of representatives who serve only themselves, not the constituents who have elected and re-elected them.
    Look, I have a very cynical view of politicians. In my view, pretty much every single one of them is more concerned about getting elected/re-elected than actually doing their job or doing any "public service" for their constuency. However, I do not want to see the rare good one forced out of office because of term limits, nor do I want to take the electoral process away from the people. If you are natural born citizen of the US, you should be able to run for any public office without restriction. Now, if we are going to start creating limits on this, lets make some that make sense. Instead of making it a popularity contest... which tends to be what it is, lets actually "hire" people who have qualifications to do their jobs. People with both business and political/legal backgrounds.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  7. #57
    Sage
    samsmart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,316
    Blog Entries
    37

    Re: Term limits on the House and the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Perhaps, but that didn't seem to do much to keep Ted Stevens and Charlie Rangel in line, just the two most recent examples I can think of, which is an argument for term limits.
    True - but being new to federal politics didn't stop John McCain as a freshman Representative and Senator for Arizona between 1982 and 1987 from being influenced by political contributions from Charles Keating, Jr. to interfere in a federal investigation during the Savings and Loan Scandals of the '80's.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  8. #58
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: Term limits on the House and the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    True - but being new to federal politics didn't stop John McCain as a freshman Representative and Senator for Arizona between 1982 and 1987 from being influenced by political contributions from Charles Keating, Jr. to interfere in a federal investigation during the Savings and Loan Scandals of the '80's.
    You are correct, but term limits would have prevented him from continuing on in Congress to this day.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #59
    Guru
    LuckyDan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Carrollton, TX
    Last Seen
    05-13-13 @ 11:35 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    2,758

    Re: Term limits on the House and the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    OK. I'm not sure how that counters what I said, but that's probably correct.
    You said this in #25:

    If it is "the people's chamber" it is up to the people to decide that. If "the people" want the same representative for 40 years, that is "the people's" decision.
    And I replied:

    Defeating an encumbent is difficult. He is often better funded and has much greater name recognition than an unknown challenger.
    My point is that "the people's" options may be limited by an entrenched encumbent with whom they may simply be complacent and familiar, and whose pockets may be too deep to outspend.

    My larger point though is that the House should be a citizen legislature, and filling it with career politicians makes that an impossibility.

  10. #60
    Global Moderator
    I'm a Jedi Master, Yo

    CaptainCourtesy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:54 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    152,759

    Re: Term limits on the House and the Senate?

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyDan View Post
    You said this in #25:



    And I replied:



    My point is that "the people's" options may be limited by an entrenched encumbent with whom they may simply be complacent and familiar, and whose pockets may be too deep to outspend.
    That doesn't change that what I said was accurate. The "people's" options are not limited. The people can still vote out the guy with deep pockets if they want.

    My larger point though is that the House should be a citizen legislature, and filling it with career politicians makes that an impossibility.
    That's a different issue altogether.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

Page 6 of 9 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •