View Poll Results: Should we allow students to be recruited?

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Thread: Is Admitting Students to College based on Sports Beneficial?

  1. #131
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    Re: Is Admitting Students to College based on Sports Beneficial?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    People who cannot hack it should fail out-be they athletic recruits, legacies, affirmative action types or admissions office mistakes

    that isn't the issue-its about recruiting athletes who push aside the least talented people for getting into the schools
    Yeah, they fail out... Maybe if they're volleyball players. But pick the right sport and have the right amount of skill and you won't fail out. This happens far more often then I think you're willing to give credit for.
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  2. #132
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    Re: Is Admitting Students to College based on Sports Beneficial?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yeah, they fail out... Maybe if they're volleyball players. But pick the right sport and have the right amount of skill and you won't fail out. This happens far more often then I think you're willing to give credit for.
    didn't happen at any of the places I attended

    tell me Ikari where did you major and where do you teach?

    and yes I would rather have a star athlete in my class than the kid who was the last guy to make it into the class



  3. #133
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    Re: Is Admitting Students to College based on Sports Beneficial?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    and yes I would rather have a star athlete in my class than the kid who was the last guy to make it into the class
    or the spoiled rich kid who thinks he doesn't even have to come to class because daddy's name is on the campus library.
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  4. #134
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    Re: Is Admitting Students to College based on Sports Beneficial?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    didn't happen at any of the places I attended

    tell me Ikari where did you major and where do you teach?

    and yes I would rather have a star athlete in my class than the kid who was the last guy to make it into the class
    I've had those star athletes. Some were good, some should not have been in University. In Ivy league, the problem is probably a bit less pronounced. One of the reasons Notre Dame will always have problems making a good football team (not that they can't, it's just very difficult) is because they demand very rigorously that the athletes meet the academic expectations of the school (I don't know if Notre Dame is exactly "Ivy League", but it's a school that is very serious about its academics). I've taught at smaller Universities, in Colorado State it's happened a handful of times to TA's who were failing certain folk in lab. I've known other people from other Universities. The larger the school football/basketball program, the more pronounced these violations become. My adviser's good friend teaches at the University of Indiana. He ended up having to teach some course about basketball to the basketball team. The tests were over rules and regulations of basketball. A couple of the players failed. The grade the professor posted was not the grade that ended up on the official University records.

    You may want to deny this stuff happens due to your limited experience in academia. But this is one area where I am well versed in, and I've seen this stuff happen.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  5. #135
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    Re: Is Admitting Students to College based on Sports Beneficial?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    or the spoiled rich kid who thinks he doesn't even have to come to class because daddy's name is on the campus library.
    I don't like any group which skirts their academic responsibilities while in University. It's not hard to perform to spec, not with the psychology and business departments around.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #136
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    Re: Is Admitting Students to College based on Sports Beneficial?

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    Its the other way around, I think. Most athletes forget, and some, like you, do/did not.
    Repeter... were you a college athlete? I was one at a D-1 school competitive in several sports. You would be surprised how many of my fellow athletes were in the study room of the athletes dorm after dinner to work on homework and in come cases take advantage of tutorial services made available to the athletes. Those who did not take their studies seriously were in the minority. The average GPA on my teams was HIGHER than the overall student body average...
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  7. #137
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    Re: Is Admitting Students to College based on Sports Beneficial?

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    That's only half-true. All the ivies send likely letters to athletes. However, as stated before, athletes cannot be more than one SD from the mean AI. I know many recruited athletes that were ridic smart (one kid was recruited for wrestling with a 2390 SAT to my school. Did he not deserve it?). Each coach per sport gets ONE pick per year that they can "recruit" and be essentially guarenteed admission. However, they have to be academically qualified via the AI scale.


    I'd just like to note: I was asked at a BB bank at an interview for a summer analyst position just this past semester why I never participated on a team sport. I did club hockey, but didn't think it was relevant to finance, so I didn't put it on my resume. That question, honestly, was the most surprising I ever got at an interview.
    Because as much as people like Ikari hate to admit it, sports can help build characteristics valued in the private sector but CAN'T BE TAUGHT IN THE CLASSROOM!!!
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  8. #138
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    Re: Is Admitting Students to College based on Sports Beneficial?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    You should have been really good at the right sport. Then you could have done whatever you want.
    Perhaps at your university, but not at mine. Besides, at 5'9" and 140 lbs, a little short for basketball and a little small for football or hockey...
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  9. #139
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    Re: Is Admitting Students to College based on Sports Beneficial?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    People like to keep saying this, but it's simply not true. For very big programs (and that's not a large percentage of Universities out there), the academic side of the University can get some benefit from their sports teams. But they don't get a lot of money, most of the money made stays in the athletics department. Hookers aren't cheap you know. The money that makes it outside the athletics department is primarily used for advertising, and some small fraction (if it's a big program) makes it to academia.
    Yeah, your anti-athletes bias is showing... You know, as a professor, you should try to understand your students rather than make senseless comments such as this. I don't know abour your state, but in the state I was in, public universities (only one D-1 public university in the state) were REQUIRED by state law to separate academic and athletics funds.

    However, there are only so many Ohio State University, University of Florida, Texas A&M, etc. out there. Other schools derive little to no benefit from the sports program on the academic side. In fact, it can be quite the opposite and siphon tons of money away from the academic side so some coach can make ridiculous money to never win a game, so student fees can be increased to make an indoor practice facility for a team that won't ever win. Give give give by the academic side of the University, take take take by the athletics side. And in the end, there is no real benefit gained from doing so. However, we have somehow ingrained it into our psyche that we must have a football team, we must have a basketball team, we must support this and that; even at Universities which cannot really support it. So to the generalized question as to whether or not admitting students based on sports is beneficial, it's not. Because the only place the University in terms of academia can hope to benefit from the sports programs is in schools with very large programs. And those happen to be the programs which will also have the most cheating.
    Again, this is not allowed by the state law in several (perhaps many states).
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  10. #140
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    Re: Is Admitting Students to College based on Sports Beneficial?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    It isn't good for the vast majority of the students who, usually don't graduate and usually don't go on to play professional sports.
    The VAST MAJORITY of student-athletes graduate. I know facts are hard to swallow for those who are jealous of good athletes who become good due to tremendous amounts of work and sacrifice... Do you even understand how hard most of us work and the sacrifices we make to be both students AND athletes???
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