View Poll Results: Should we allow students to be recruited?

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Thread: Is Admitting Students to College based on Sports Beneficial?

  1. #121
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    Re: Is Admitting Students to College based on Sports Beneficial?

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    I never ONCE received any kind of exception due to my athletic involvement with the exception of being able to hand in an assignment due during a road trip upon immediate return from the road trip (as per school policy). Yes, there are some problems, but the VAST MAJORITY of student-athletes ARE students and can hold up well in the classroom. The average GPA of the members of both my soccer and track teams were ABOVE the GPA for the student body and many of us graduated with honors. Same with my then-girlfriend's gymnastics team.
    You should have been really good at the right sport. Then you could have done whatever you want.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  2. #122
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    Re: Is Admitting Students to College based on Sports Beneficial?

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    It is a benefit as sports programs add income to the University. There is a lot of money in some of the events. This is about money and not about intelligence. The University may well be able to offer other students scholarships for academics because of the money gained by the sports programs.
    People like to keep saying this, but it's simply not true. For very big programs (and that's not a large percentage of Universities out there), the academic side of the University can get some benefit from their sports teams. But they don't get a lot of money, most of the money made stays in the athletics department. Hookers aren't cheap you know. The money that makes it outside the athletics department is primarily used for advertising, and some small fraction (if it's a big program) makes it to academia.

    However, there are only so many Ohio State University, University of Florida, Texas A&M, etc. out there. Other schools derive little to no benefit from the sports program on the academic side. In fact, it can be quite the opposite and siphon tons of money away from the academic side so some coach can make ridiculous money to never win a game, so student fees can be increased to make an indoor practice facility for a team that won't ever win. Give give give by the academic side of the University, take take take by the athletics side. And in the end, there is no real benefit gained from doing so. However, we have somehow ingrained it into our psyche that we must have a football team, we must have a basketball team, we must support this and that; even at Universities which cannot really support it. So to the generalized question as to whether or not admitting students based on sports is beneficial, it's not. Because the only place the University in terms of academia can hope to benefit from the sports programs is in schools with very large programs. And those happen to be the programs which will also have the most cheating.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  3. #123
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    Re: Is Admitting Students to College based on Sports Beneficial?

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    Is it a good idea to keep admitting students to colleges based on their athletic skills rather than their academic skills?

    While I'm not against considering sports as a benefit to a student's resume, I'm talking about recruiting people specifically because of their sports skills.
    It isn't good for the vast majority of the students who, usually don't graduate and usually don't go on to play professional sports.
    He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. ~ Winston Churchill

  4. #124
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    Re: Is Admitting Students to College based on Sports Beneficial?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    It isn't good for the vast majority of the students who, usually don't graduate and usually don't go on to play professional sports.
    That's an interesting point. I wonder what the graduation rate of student athletes are. Also, I wonder what the break down in major is in. Not all of them can major in underwater basket weaving.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  5. #125
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    Re: Is Admitting Students to College based on Sports Beneficial?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    That's an interesting point. I wonder what the graduation rate of student athletes are. Also, I wonder what the break down in major is in. Not all of them can major in underwater basket weaving.
    Some of them do aboveground

  6. #126
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    Re: Is Admitting Students to College based on Sports Beneficial?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    It isn't good for the vast majority of the students who, usually don't graduate and usually don't go on to play professional sports.
    are you saying recruits don't usually graduate?



  7. #127
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    Re: Is Admitting Students to College based on Sports Beneficial?

    I wonder how much of the anti-athletics posts on this thread are the result of

    a) nerds who are mad that the jocks were more popular with the good looking girls than they were

    b) the jocks got more attention in the school press than they did

    c) coaches get paid more than they-as teachers or professors-do

    d) the poster not getting into a college he wanted to go to but some jock did


    I am still waiting for one of the jock bashers to address my point that those turned down in favor of athletes are the people on the margin not the top applicants



  8. #128
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    Re: Is Admitting Students to College based on Sports Beneficial?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I wonder how much of the anti-athletics posts on this thread are the result of

    a) nerds who are mad that the jocks were more popular with the good looking girls than they were

    b) the jocks got more attention in the school press than they did

    c) coaches get paid more than they-as teachers or professors-do

    d) the poster not getting into a college he wanted to go to but some jock did


    I am still waiting for one of the jock bashers to address my point that those turned down in favor of athletes are the people on the margin not the top applicants
    It's not anti-athletics. Though maybe you're proving a point because obviously you didn't read posts. I've said that sports can be very good and that people can and do excel in both academics and sports. My beef was never with them. It's with the athletes who cannot hack the academic side, but because they play a certain sport really well are given all sorts of cheats and riders to coast through the academic side of University. I'm fine with student athletes so long as they can do their academic work on their own to the standards of the school. As to the broader picture of it being beneficial, I have already explained why that is not true on the aggregated level of University.

    But honestly, from your list c is really ****ing annoying. Research professors provide well more utility and money to the University as a whole than any coach ever will. Hell even our coach at Colorado State (who is ****ty and proved it by winning 1 game last year) gets paid well more than any professor who actually provides service to the University as a whole.
    Last edited by Ikari; 01-27-11 at 06:44 PM.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #129
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    Re: Is Admitting Students to College based on Sports Beneficial?

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Ivy Schools don't have athletic scholarships. Do they accept athletes that are not academically qualified?
    they are not allowed to-a team cannot be more than one deviation below the student body average (which isn't a whole lot) and individual athletes cannot be more than two. The varsity team I played on at Yale hat a 3.5 average and three phi beta kappas. The most demanding teams-swimming and tennis-had averages above the student body.

    Here is another fact-if someone is recruited they have a far higher chance of admission-in 2006 256 athletes were put on "coaches lists" and about 200 were accepted. that is a far higher average but it also speaks to the fact that these kids were well screened by the coaches. and if you are a recruit and are accepted unlike other leagues, you are not going to get booted if you quit the sport. My sophomore suite included a guy who was a parade all american football star-a guy who had been offered full rides to stanford, notre dame and Duke. He played freshman ball for Yale(an ivy rule then) even though he could have started at almost any D 1 school in the USA. after seriously hurting another player from Harvard (a clean tackle that broke the other players leg) he quit and decided to become a doctor-he graduated summa cum laude and there was no risk that his need-based (he was from a blue collar family) scholarship was going to get pulled even though he had been the top recruit in his class



  10. #130
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    Re: Is Admitting Students to College based on Sports Beneficial?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It's not anti-athletics. Though maybe you're proving a point because obviously you didn't read posts. I've said that sports can be very good and that people can and do excel in both academics and sports. My beef was never with them. It's with the athletes who cannot hack the academic side, but because they play a certain sport really well are given all sorts of cheats and riders to coast through the academic side of University. I'm fine with student athletes so long as they can do their academic work on their own to the standards of the school. As to the broader picture of it being beneficial, I have already explained why that is not true on the aggregated level of University.
    People who cannot hack it should fail out-be they athletic recruits, legacies, affirmative action types or admissions office mistakes

    that isn't the issue-its about recruiting athletes who push aside the least talented people for getting into the schools



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