View Poll Results: Suggestion on gaining more manufacturing plants within the US a good idea?

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Thread: Manufacturing jobs - Read post before voting!

  1. #31
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    Re: Manufacturing jobs - Read post before voting!

    I say cut out the government subsidies.
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    Re: Manufacturing jobs - Read post before voting!

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
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    Re: Manufacturing jobs - Read post before voting!

    not a bad idea. However, since costs are so much higher here, the price to consumers of said prodcuts will be significantly higher, possibly lowering sales and profitability.

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    Re: Manufacturing jobs - Read post before voting!

    Quote Originally Posted by cpgrad08 View Post
    Just make it cheaper for companies to operate and produce stuff here. That will bring jobs back to America and keep consumer costs down.
    That's not really possible considering other countries can offer labor at pennies on the dollar. In fact, we need to do the opposite, we need to make it more expensive to do business elsewhere. Require companies to pay American wages regardless of where their manufacturing is done, make them follow American environmental laws, safety laws, etc. In other words, take away the cheap labor and they'll keep the work here.
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    Re: Manufacturing jobs - Read post before voting!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    That's not really possible considering other countries can offer labor at pennies on the dollar. In fact, we need to do the opposite, we need to make it more expensive to do business elsewhere. Require companies to pay American wages regardless of where their manufacturing is done, make them follow American environmental laws, safety laws, etc. In other words, take away the cheap labor and they'll keep the work here.
    Nah. They'll just incorporate elsewhere.
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    Re: Manufacturing jobs - Read post before voting!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Nah. They'll just incorporate elsewhere.
    Most companies that are incorporated elsewhere also have manufacturing facilities in the U.S. Require anyone who does to follow U.S. law. Those that don't face heavy import taxes. Not that difficult.
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    Re: Manufacturing jobs - Read post before voting!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Most companies that are incorporated elsewhere also have manufacturing facilities in the U.S. Require anyone who does to follow U.S. law.
    Hmm. So the US government would mandate that Acme Corporation has to set up all their manufacturing facilities in the US where they have to pay high wages, or all their manufacturing facilities outside the US in cheaper countries. I know which one I'd choose.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus
    Those that don't face heavy import taxes. Not that difficult.
    Free trade is probably the greatest economic development to happen to the world in the last 20 years. Why would we want to regress to protectionism? Tariffs just promote incompetence among local companies, increase misery for consumers, discourage innovation, and in the long term don't even protect the jobs they were intended to protect.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 01-24-11 at 12:24 PM.
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    Re: Manufacturing jobs - Read post before voting!

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    not a bad idea. However, since costs are so much higher here, the price to consumers of said prodcuts will be significantly higher, possibly lowering sales and profitability.
    It makes me a little sad that "keep the jobs here, keep the costs low, and simply not allow those at the top to profit as much" isn't even an option in this discussion. Keeping jobs, even manufacturing jobs, in the US for US citizens to work at and make money at, is a good thing. No one could deny that. More people will have more ability to engage in commerce and trade, and will have more wealth. This is good. However, producing prosperity in America is more expensive than anywhere else in absolute cost. It costs more to live here, and to live at what we consider reasonable standards. I feel that limiting the ability of business leaders to make millions and millions of dollars for their own benefit would improve this situation, but I'm aware that many disagree.

    What I'm sure we don't disagree on is the need for more people in this country to have more prosperity and more buying power. The biggest problem our economy is facing right now is massive unemployment. Bring jobs back here. We need them.
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  9. #39
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    Re: Manufacturing jobs - Read post before voting!

    Some good questions here. Though I am no expert I'll try to answer them as best I can.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Let's start out with the more general question: Why should we be encouraging manufacturing jobs to stay in the United States in the first place? Is there something specific about manufacturing you think we need to protect, or do you just dislike ANY jobs leaving the country? Manufacturing goes overseas because it is more profitable to do it overseas. It's just not something the US has a competitive advantage at doing. Our competitive advantage lies in other things - great IT, great emerging technologies, great business practices, great universities, etc. There is no need to specifically protect manufacturing jobs. If, on the other hand, we're talking about protecting jobs in general, there are far easier ways to do it than this. I'm not sure this would even achieve the desired goal of higher employment.
    In order to answer this I must start out by asking an economic question. What creates wealth for a country? One of the first things that most economists will say is "products". The best and only way to get a product is to make a product. This is what manufacturing does. Creates products en masse. The more of a product that you have the more that you will sell. (assuming of course that the product is something that people want) The more wealth that will be brought in.

    The next thing economists will say is bringing in money from outside the country. This also is what manufacturing can do. Only difference is selling the product outside the country. This is why exporting goods is so important to any country. In fact that is one of the biggest reasons that China has been able to catch up to the US so quickly in terms of wealth. They increased thier production of goods by creating and bringing in factories from other countries.

    So no it is not just about the jobs. Though that is certainly another major factor for this idea. The wealthier a population the more money will be circulated, which helps keep any economy going. The only way to make the population wealthier is by keeping the population working and getting paid. One of the biggest reasons for a recession is people stop buying things. If people have money, and know that they will continue to make money, the more they will be willing to spend.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Now, onto the more specific question, about government subsidies for R&D and protecting those developments. I think we need to examine why the government subsidizes R&D for certain technologies in the first place, and just eliminate it if there isn't a good reason. If it's outright corporate welfare, then we would be better off just ending the subsidies instead of implementing a complex regulatory framework to protect the innovations. On the other hand, if there is some compelling public interest in developing certain technologies, then it really shouldn't matter where they are manufactured, as long as Americans have access to them. In either case, I'd be against a mandate to keep them in country.
    For this there are many reasons to support R&D. A major one that should concern everyone in the country would be that if they don't then it is quite possible that other countries that are willing to give out money for R&D will eventually surpass the US technology wise. (for the simple fact that the more money being spent on it means more resources are able to be dedicated to what ever is being R&D'd) Quite possibly to the point were we would be like N.Korea vs the US right now. All bluster and not a big enough stick to actually threaten anyone. For this reason it is extremely important for the government to continue to help fund R&D. Now I'm not saying that this is an IMMEDIATE concern. But looking in the long range goals it certainly is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Furthermore, I think the idea is unenforceable. Would they be required to manufacture ALL of the product in the US, or just the product that they were selling to Americans? What if they also received R&D subsidies from a foreign government? What constitutes "government assistance" to develop the product - I'm sure the definition of that would be litigated to death by every company that it affected. What's to stop a competitor from manufacturing the product elsewhere, thus eating into the creator's profits because they can't compete on a level playing field?
    If they recieved nothing but US subsidies then yes they would be required to manufacture all of the product in the US. It would be pointless otherwise.

    I'm not really sure about what to do if the corporation recieves subsidies from other governments. Perhaps in this case we could say to go ahead and allow them to use factories in other countries...however they would have to create an equal amount of factories/jobs in the US? Put it on a 1:1 basis. Though I am unsure of how this would affect prices... Ultimately the questions that you have in this paragraph would have to be answered by people far smarter than me.

    As for what constitutes government asssistance? We can keep it simple to start out. Any company that recieves monies/subsidies from any government agency would be subject to my idea.

    As for whats to stop a competitor? Copy right infringments. Pretty much any company will put a copy right on any product...often in many different countries. And they will do whatever they can to keep that copy right as long as possible. Since my idea only allows for a company to have to make the product in the US for a certain amount of time they will eventually be able to move the manufacturing over seas. Between copy rights and them being able to eventually move to "greener" pastures they should be protected in this way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Generally speaking, most people benefit from free trade, not protectionism. If the government is funding R&D for no compelling reason, it should simply stop. And if it has a good reason, then it should celebrate the fact that the product might be manufactured elsewhere under cheaper conditions, thus increasing its availability.
    Part of this was answered above so I'll only address what I haven't addressed already. You are correct that generally most people benefit from free trade. But as with anything else...too much of something can be a bad thing. There has to be a middle ground. As it stands now there are too many corporations which have thier main officies based in the US (partly because of the subsidies they are able to get by being based here) but thier manufacturing jobs are outsourced to outside countries. This brings in no wealth for the country. In fact it costs us in the long run. This is one of the reasons that we are having such a hard time in this country right now. Too much money going out...not enough coming in. Partly due to the Free Trade Agreement.

    Hope I satisfactorily answered at least most of your questions.
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    Re: Manufacturing jobs - Read post before voting!

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    It makes me a little sad that "keep the jobs here, keep the costs low, and simply not allow those at the top to profit as much" isn't even an option in this discussion. Keeping jobs, even manufacturing jobs, in the US for US citizens to work at and make money at, is a good thing. No one could deny that. More people will have more ability to engage in commerce and trade, and will have more wealth. This is good. However, producing prosperity in America is more expensive than anywhere else in absolute cost. It costs more to live here, and to live at what we consider reasonable standards. I feel that limiting the ability of business leaders to make millions and millions of dollars for their own benefit would improve this situation, but I'm aware that many disagree.

    What I'm sure we don't disagree on is the need for more people in this country to have more prosperity and more buying power. The biggest problem our economy is facing right now is massive unemployment. Bring jobs back here. We need them.
    I only disagree with one line in that post... see if you can guess which one

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