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Thread: Is Chinese an ethnicity?

  1. #81
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    Re: Is Chinese an ethnicity?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    We're just going to have to agree to disagree on most of this. All I'm going to say is gay marriage is not an attack on any individual, or group, or culture. If you or your church don't support gay marriage, that's fine. E="3"]Gay Marriage is not an imposition on anybody. You are free to not get a gay marriage and to try and prevent your children from doing so. I don't see why people against gay marriage are so intent on denying other people something that has little to do with them.
    Just my cultural norms.


    You keep on saying "you" as if you think I am the embodiment of liberalism and liberals are this huge monolithic entity out to get you. Liberals consist of 20% of the American population. It seems to me that you know very few actual liberals or else you wouldn't be painting them with such a broad brush, and that some abstract monolithic "liberal culture" actually exists.
    You do, and you're corrosive to traditional societies.

    source
    Cultural liberalism is a liberal view of society that stresses the freedom of individuals from cultural norms. It is often expressed, in the words of Thoreau as the right to "march to the beat of a different drummer".[1] Cultural liberals believe that society should not impose any specific code of behaviour, and they see themselves as defending the rights of non-conformists to express their own identity however they see fit, as long as they do not hurt anyone.

    The culture wars in politics are disagreements between cultural liberals and cultural conservatives. For example, cultural liberals argue that all religion(s) and forms of worship (or lack thereof) should be tolerated. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights says "Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance"[2] and the Constitution of the United States states that "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States"[3]. Cultural liberals are strongly opposed to censorship or any kind of oversight of spoken or written material in peacetime.[4]. They believe that the structure of one's family and the nature of marriage should be left up to individual decision, and they argue that, as long as one does no harm, no lifestyle is inherently better than any other.....

    At the end of the day, Conservatives still have drastically more votes than liberals simply because they constitute a much larger percentage of the population. All this fear-mongering about how liberals are out to get you is rather amusing to me considering we're still a drastically conservative country. It's amusing because conservatives still hold the most power.
    You do understand this country has mr obama in the white house and the democratic party holds the senate right? Liberals also control the mainstream media in this country.

    The country is now understood to be divided in thirds, 1/3 liberal, 1/3 conservative, and 1/3 independent. Conservatives have lousy representation. The leadership of the republican party is, far too often, virtually identical to that of the democratic party.



    On a personal level, I think hunting should be banned and firearms should be controlled. In no way does that mean I actually want to impose anything upon you, especially since it would probably impossible legislatively. On the other hand, denial of gay couple's right to marry has a concrete and material impact on the lives of those individuals. Just who exactly is imposing upon who? Conservatives dominate the population and as a result our government. The degree of your fear is inordinate.
    You want your cultural norms to predominate over my cultural norms. I get that. It's why I want a divorce. It's why I want borders. I want to keep my culture.

    For the most part true. I was merely explaining the logic behind the international policeman way of thinking. I wasn't saying that I agreed with it totally.
    I understand the "logic." I'm just rejecting it.


    I am completely aware. Yet joining the military has always been a dream of mine. That's not going to stop me. At the end of the day you fight for you buddies and your comrades because your survival depends on the man on your right and left. Personal politics should have nothing to do with it. If I decided not to join the military just because it was dominated by conservatives that would make me rather narrow-minded, don't you think?
    Ok, just don't bad-mouth; hunting, guns, country music, or family trees without branches and you'll do just fine.


    What are you talking about here? Who's "us" and who's "you." I have no sons or daughters (it would be rather troubling if I did.)
    You know us as trailer trash, hicks or worse. Whatever you call us we tend to predominate in the flyover states.
    Last edited by Dutch; 01-23-11 at 08:40 PM.
    He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. ~ Winston Churchill

  2. #82
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    Re: Is Chinese an ethnicity?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I interned at the National Museum of Marine Biology and Aquarium in Kenting this summer. My experience was that lots of Taiwanese tourists were rather rude. The Mainlanders in many cases were even worse.
    Some are (Taiwanese, I mean) ... not meeting Japanese standards anyway, but when I go to Sun Moon Lake or other places, the Chinese presence is overbearing... many Taiwanese don't like going there anymore... when I go there, I am there with my triathlete friends, so we stay away from the Chinese crowds because we want to actually swim after cycling up there, but there is far more garbage there now than before opening up to Chinese tourists...

    FYI -- The Museum of Marine Biology and Aquarium is not strictly in Kenting. It is in Checheng Township in Pingdong County. Kenting is an area in Hengchen Township which is just south of Checheng...
    Last edited by ludahai; 01-23-11 at 08:45 PM.
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  3. #83
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    Re: Is Chinese an ethnicity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Nonsense. Assimilation is happening just the same today as it ever has, and the new group always adds changes to the society. Assimilation leaves neither the immigrant nor the society the same, and that is a good thing.

    You bemoan the changes in society as if assimilation used to happen by magic, as if immigrants from generations past just blended right into a perfectly continuous, unchanging society. But you're looking at the past with rose colored glasses. This is the same tired rhetoric, the Irish/Italians/Mexicans/whatever today's immigrant group is are undermining our society, and it is just as bogus today as it was in the 30s.
    I find this assertion highly unlikely.

    He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. ~ Winston Churchill

  4. #84
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    Re: Is Chinese an ethnicity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    That's very interesting. How hard is it, do you think, for an English speaker to pick up conversational Mandarin?
    I am a native English speaker. It isn't easy. Immersion is the best way. Tones are the hardest part for speakers of Western languages as different tones in different comtexts significantly changes the meaning of the word. Mandarin is also highly contextural as well. Many words have the same sound (homophones are far more common in Sinitic languages than in English), so it isn't all that easy. The State Department lists Mandarin/Chinese in its most difficult classification of languages to learn. Grammar, however, is generally easier than English.
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  5. #85
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    Re: Is Chinese an ethnicity?

    Just my cultural norms.
    I fail to see how permitting gay marriage is an any way an affront to your culture or the life you choose to live. Again, if you are against gay marriage, don't get one.

    You do, and you're corrosive to traditional societies.
    "Cultural liberalism" is not the same thing as "liberal culture." Liberals come from all different backgrounds and walks of life. There is no such thing as a unifying "liberal culture." I take culture to mean a lifestyle and set of personal values one lives by. The way I live my own life is potentially drastically different from the way another liberal lives his. The way a liberal lives his or her own life often has nothing to do with his or her political beliefs. As I state above I am rather conservative in my personal lifestyle.

    You do understand this country has mr obama in the white house and the democratic party holds the senate right? Liberals also control the mainstream media in this country.

    The country is now understood to be divided in thirds, 1/3 liberal, 1/3 conservative, and 1/3 independent. Conservatives have lousy representation. The leadership of the republican party is, far too often, virtually identical to that of the democratic party.
    Obama's policies have barely been liberal. He has continued the War in Afghanistan. Most of his closest advisors are rather conservative in their outlook. The healthcare bill was a weak compromise, as was financial regulation. He is against gay marriage. He did not take the lead on don't ask don't tell. He has not closed Guantanamo Bay. He has continued Bush's policy of extraordinary rendition. Obama might have had a liberal voting record but his presidential policies have been barely liberal.

    In 2010, Conservatives Still Outnumber Moderates, Liberals

    Conservatives outnumber liberals by almost 2 to 1 in this country. Get more of your fellow conservatives to vote.

    You want your cultural norms to predominate over my cultural norms. I get that. It's why I want a divorce. It's why I want borders. I want to keep my culture.
    Your culture and your cultural norms are yours to keep. Your cultural identity will remain intact as long as you choose to maintain it. How exactly is anyone taking your culture away from you? Give me concrete examples.

    You know us as trailer trash, hicks or worse. Whatever you call us we tend to predominate in the flyover states.
    Why are you so presumptuous as to assume you know what I call other people? Especially people I've never met and therefore have not had the chance to judge? You seem to be judging and stereotyping me quite vigorously purely based on my political beliefs, but the fact remains that has nothing to do with who I am as a person.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 01-23-11 at 08:57 PM.

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    Re: Is Chinese an ethnicity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Nonsense. Assimilation is happening just the same today as it ever has, and the new group always adds changes to the society. Assimilation leaves neither the immigrant nor the society the same, and that is a good thing.

    You bemoan the changes in society as if assimilation used to happen by magic, as if immigrants from generations past just blended right into a perfectly continuous, unchanging society. But you're looking at the past with rose colored glasses. This is the same tired rhetoric, the Irish/Italians/Mexicans/whatever today's immigrant group is are undermining our society, and it is just as bogus today as it was in the 30s.
    I'm not looking for a simple denial followed by rhetoric. I'm looking for factual analysis. Let's start again.

    The illegal aliens in California are under no pressure to assimilate. They have a separate reality that works for them. They are not forced to comply with building codes. They are not forced to obtain automobile insurance or driver's licenses even though illegality is not an obstacle because fake documents are readily available. They get paid in cash under the table and don't file tax returns. They are under no compulsion to learn English because people like me instead learn Spanglish in order to cope with illegal aliens everywhere. Your turn.

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    Re: Is Chinese an ethnicity?

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Some are (Taiwanese, I mean) ... not meeting Japanese standards anyway, but when I go to Sun Moon Lake or other places, the Chinese presence is overbearing... many Taiwanese don't like going there anymore... when I go there, I am there with my triathlete friends, so we stay away from the Chinese crowds because we want to actually swim after cycling up there, but there is far more garbage there now than before opening up to Chinese tourists...

    FYI -- The Museum of Marine Biology and Aquarium is not strictly in Kenting. It is in Checheng Township in Pingdong County. Kenting is an area in Hengchen Township which is just south of Checheng...
    Chinese tourists are coming over here now too. I like the ones who come looking to snap up real estate at bargain basement prices.

  8. #88
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    Re: Is Chinese an ethnicity?

    Cultural liberalism is a liberal view of society that stresses the freedom of individuals from cultural norms. It is often expressed, in the words of Thoreau as the right to "march to the beat of a different drummer".[1] Cultural liberals believe that society should not impose any specific code of behaviour, and they see themselves as defending the rights of non-conformists to express their own identity however they see fit, as long as they do not hurt anyone.

    The culture wars in politics are disagreements between cultural liberals and cultural conservatives. For example, cultural liberals argue that all religion(s) and forms of worship (or lack thereof) should be tolerated. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights says "Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance"[2] and the Constitution of the United States states that "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States"[3]. Cultural liberals are strongly opposed to censorship or any kind of oversight of spoken or written material in peacetime.[4]. They believe that the structure of one's family and the nature of marriage should be left up to individual decision, and they argue that, as long as one does no harm, no lifestyle is inherently better than any other.....
    The are cultural disagreements between left and right, but the notion of actual "culture wars" is ridiculous. In terms of social issues, Americans have a bell curve were most of the people are social moderate/centrists, and the curve tapers off at the extreme left and right. If there were actually culture wars we would see many people at both extremes and few people in the middle, which is simply not the case. The large majority of Americans are social moderates/centrists/independents.

    Also I fail to see how the permission of numerous religions to coexist in the same society is a bad thing. We live in America, people should be free to worship whatever or whomever they wish. From the wikipedia article description of cultural liberalism I fail to see how it is corrosive to American society, which is predicated on the very notion of freedom of thought.

  9. #89
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    Re: Is Chinese an ethnicity?

    FYI -- The Museum of Marine Biology and Aquarium is not strictly in Kenting. It is in Checheng Township in Pingdong County. Kenting is an area in Hengchen Township which is just south of Checheng..
    Right. I wasn't being very specific is all.

  10. #90
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    Re: Is Chinese an ethnicity?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I fail to see how permitting gay marriage is an any way an affront to your culture or the life you choose to live. Again, if you are against gay marriage, don't get one.
    And I fail to see why civil unions with all the legal rights of those who are married isn't just as acceptable. That's why we belong to differing cultures.



    "Cultural liberalism" is not the same thing as "liberal culture." Liberals come from all different backgrounds and walks of life. There is no such thing as a unifying "liberal culture." I take culture to mean a lifestyle and set of personal values one lives by. The way I live my own life is potentially drastically different from the way another liberal lives his. The way a liberal lives his or her own life often has nothing to do with his or her political beliefs. As I state above I am rather conservative in my personal lifestyle.
    We'll simply have to disagree on this.


    Obama's policies have barely been liberal. He has continued the War in Afghanistan. Most of his closest advisors are rather conservative in their outlook. The healthcare bill was a weak compromise, as was financial regulation. He is against gay marriage. He did not take the lead on don't ask don't tell. He has not closed Guantanamo Bay. He has continued Bush's policy of extraordinary rendition. Obama might have had a liberal voting record but his presidential policies have been barely liberal.
    Mr obama isn't liberal enough for you and too damn liberal for me. This is the problem one would expect in trying to govern a hopelessly divided country.



    In 2010, Conservatives Still Outnumber Moderates, Liberals

    Conservatives outnumber liberals by almost 2 to 1 in this country. Get more of your fellow conservatives to vote.
    Voting is what we do. It's the lack of representation that's the problem. Besides, I'm thinking the term "conservative" has different meanings to those in your poll. For instance you consider yourself "comservative" in your lifestyle. I get the idea you and I wouldn't agree on just what constitutes a "conservative" lifestyle.



    Your culture and your cultural norms are yours to keep. Your cultural identity will remain intact as long as you choose to maintain it. How exactly is anyone taking your culture away from you? Give me concrete examples.
    I have issues with american liberals/leftists on but not limited to; marijuana, gay marriage, dadt, firearms, hunting, religion, federal land use, experiments with the institution of marriage, failure to allow the use of resources, unions...for starters.

    Now, tell me, specifically what are your problems with conservatives.


    Why are you so presumptuous as to assume you know what I call other people? Especially people I've never met and therefore have not had the chance to judge? You seem to be judging and stereotyping me quite vigorously purely based on my political beliefs, but the fact remains that has nothing to do with who I am as a person.
    I'm sure you are a very nice person. I'm certain your mother and father love you. However, you guys, american liberals, are depressingly similar. American liberals tend to be very intolerant of those who do not share their political beliefs, that would be people like me.
    Last edited by Dutch; 01-23-11 at 09:59 PM.
    He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. ~ Winston Churchill

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