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Thread: Is Chinese an ethnicity?

  1. #41
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    Re: Is Chinese an ethnicity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    ......and there is no reason it shouldn't remain civil. However, I thought you were a white liberal. Of course, if you share their values I feel the same way about you I would about white liberals. Isn't that fair?

    As an aside, a good friend of my wife is married to an american of ethnic taiwanese decent. They don't seem to like you guys very much. Ironic isn't it.
    Asian-Americans Lean Left Politically

    I'm curious Dutch, how exactly would you describe what Liberal values are? As opposed to conservative values? And what makes yours superior to mine?
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 01-23-11 at 02:39 PM.

  2. #42
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    Re: Is Chinese an ethnicity?

    I see the US as devoid of a common language, culture, and recognizable borders.
    English is our common language and the lingua franca of pretty much the entire civilized world. We don't have a common culture, but I don't see that necessarily as a bad thing. But I do believe all people who identify as Americans have many beliefs in common.

    We are less a nation in the traditional sense, unlike the present day chinese, and simply just a large tax domain.
    I agree we are not a nation. I also believe that present-day Chinese society is not one that should even be emulated. Han Chinese make up 99% of the population and the government uses Han Chinese forcing them into regions where they want to extend their influence (think Uighurs in Xinjiang, and Tibetans in Tibet). All of the policies that they say are in favor of protecting their ethnic minorities is a superficial facade.

    I believe the us will disintegrate. It's inevitable. Other nations have been talking about it for quite some time. I don't see it in my lifetime, too short, and "maybe" not in my son's lifetime, but it will occur.
    Perhaps the US will disintegrate just all other great powers and empires have disintegrated in the past, due to the confluence of a number of factors. I don't see that as a result of multiculturalism. In any case, I already stressed my view that in a free democratic society it's inevitable that you will have drastically different passions, opinions and ways of thinking. I think that is the essence of what makes American great. Even if our policies are ineffective because we have to compromise, that is the price we pay for living in a free society. Any attempt to create an inordinate degree of unity would be inherently coercive and propagandistic.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 01-23-11 at 02:30 PM.

  3. #43
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    Re: Is Chinese an ethnicity?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Despite being the son of immigrants, I consider myself to be an American first and foremost, as opposed to having a core Asian-American identity. I love American sports. I listen to American popular music. I engage in the same kinds activities that people my age all over the nation engage in. Despite this, my parents raised me according to traditional Asian-style Confucian values, such as unquestioning respect for your elders, hard work, being responsible for yourself and to your family, and basically getting through your own trials and tribulations without whining or complaining.
    Define american. I like many types of music but my heart belongs to bluegrass. I hunt. I believe in personal responsibility. I believe children are assets to a society, not a liability. I consider myself an atheist but I'm partial to christians. I think of myself as culturally christian. I see religion as being largely beneficial to my people. I see this government as being largely harmful to my people.


    Cultural norms are collective, not individual. If you are referring to my liberalism, well here we can just agree to disagree. In any case liberalism is a political ideology not a culture.
    I believe cultural liberalism constitutes an honest to goodness culture.


    Nobody in America is preventing you from going to church and believing and following your traditional American conservatives values.
    And yet my tradition culture is forced to accept your cultural norms vis a vie the courts.

    If anything is materialistic, it's laissez-faire capitalism. Death-oriented? How is liberalism death-oriented? FYI I am against abortion in most cases except rape, perhaps incest. I guess "hollow" is a subjective term. Decadence is a matter of perception and personal opinion. Either way nobody is attempting to force their points of view on you.
    You can ask that after 50 million abortions? You may be against it but your fellows still support it. They still encourge it, and if you believe planned parenthood targets poor and black neighborhoods as I do, they target blacks. Repealing dadt, gay marriage, most of us don't support it. Those in my part of the country feel we need some control over the border. What's happening is insane. If hollywood exploded tomorrow I'd still be celebrating ten years from now, These are just a few of the problems your culture and my culture are at odds over.


    Like I said, we live in America. You are free to believe what you wish and stick to your own personal values.
    We live in different parts of a section of "north america" called "america." We have little in common. I want even less.

    You don't know me.
    I know liberals.
    Last edited by Dutch; 01-23-11 at 02:44 PM.
    He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. ~ Winston Churchill

  4. #44
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    Re: Is Chinese an ethnicity?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Asian-Americans Lean Left Politically

    I'm curious Dutch, how exactly would you describe what Liberal values are? As opposed to conservative values? And what makes yours superior to mine?
    We don't come with a time limit.


    source
    ..........Take a randomly selected sample of 100 liberal adults and 100 conservative adults. According to an analysis of the 2004 General Social Survey -- a bible of data for social scientists -- the liberals would have had 147 kids, while the conservatives would have had 208. That's a fertility gap of 41 percent. Even adjusting for other variables like age and income, there is a gap of 19 percent.

    Now superimpose this on a map of the United States. The highest fertility rate is found in the most Republican state, Utah, home to the Mormon Church. The lowest fertility belongs to Vermont, a state liberal enough to be the first to sanction gay unions.

    The states with the next highest fertility rates, according to the latest National Center for Health Statistics survey, are Arizona, Alaska and Texas, otherwise known as "red states." States with the next lowest fertility rates are Maine, Massachusetts and Rhode Island, all "blue states."

    So what does it mean that the birth rate in Salt Lake City far outstrips that of liberal San Francisco (where dogs supposedly outnumber children)?

    "Liberals have got a big 'baby problem,' and it risks being the death of them," contends Arthur Brooks, professor at Syracuse University's Maxwell School of Public Affairs. He reckons that unless something gives, Democratic politicians in the future may not have many babies to kiss.

    "When secular-minded Americans decide to have few, or no, children, they unwittingly give a strong evolutionary advantage to the other side of the culture divide," writes Phillip Longman, senior fellow at the New America Foundation. "If 'Metros' don't start having more children, America's future is 'Retro.' "

    But wait, you may say: the attitudes of the parents don't determine what ideology or political party their offspring will adopt as their own. Yet they usually do.
    He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. ~ Winston Churchill

  5. #45
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    Re: Is Chinese an ethnicity?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    English is our common language and the lingua franca of pretty much the entire civilized world. We don't have a common culture, but I don't see that necessarily as a bad thing. But I do believe all people who identify as Americans have many beliefs in common.
    Don't tell that to the latinos. We agree we don't have a common culture. "Many" beliefs means we have similar but different cultures. The divide is continuing.


    I agree we are not a nation. I also believe that present-day Chinese society is not one that should even be emulated. Han Chinese make up 99% of the population and the government uses Han Chinese forcing them into regions where they want to extend their influence (think Uighurs in Xinjiang, and Tibetans in Tibet). All of the policies that they say are in favor of protecting their ethnic minorities is a superficial facade.
    In the end traditional nations such as the chinese will always predominate over loose confederations of peoples. It's inevitable.

    Perhaps the US will disintegrate just all other great powers and empires have disintegrated in the past, due to the confluence of a number of factors. I don't see that as a result of multiculturalism. In any case, I already stressed my view that in a free democratic society it's inevitable that you will have drastically different passions, opinions and ways of thinking. I think that is the essence of what makes American great. Even if our policies are ineffective because we have to compromise, that is the price we pay for living in a free society. Any attempt to create an inordinate degree of unity would be inherently coercive and propagandistic.
    I do. Don't misunderstand me. I'm a convert to the idea but only as a way to divorce mine from yours. My culture needs protection from yours. I would like to see my part of the country, as much as possible, free from yours.
    He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. ~ Winston Churchill

  6. #46
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    Re: Is Chinese an ethnicity?

    Define american. I like many types of music but my heart belongs to bluegrass.
    I respect that.

    I hunt.
    I view as cowardly an activity involving shooting something that can't shoot back (hunting people, as in participating in warfare where your enemy can return fire is more honorable and respectable in my opinion). I believe people should only hunt if it's necessary (for instance the deer in suburban Maryland where I live are out of control), or if hunting for sustenance is their chosen way of life. If I want to shoot, I go to the range.

    I believe children are assets to a society, not a liability.
    No disagreement here. Liberalism also does not inherently view children as a "liability." Abortion has more to do with personal choice than any abstract view of children as a liability. In any case I already stated I am for the most part against abortion.

    I consider myself an athiest but I'm partial to christians. I think of myself as culturally christian.
    I consider myself a nonreligious deist and am partial to people who think critically and realistically about religion (i.e. studying the histories of Christianity and Islam and how they came to the founded, and just how valid and "holy" the scriptures really are). In no way do I think that religion is necessary to living a better life or making yourself a better person.

    I see religion as being largely beneficial to my people.
    I believe religion is beneficial in many ways and detrimental in others.

    I see this government as being largely harmful to my people.
    I see expansive government as necessary given the complex world we live in, and we would be facing much worse problems if government were minimalist. However I do agree that the government is capable of doing more harm than good in many cases. That in no way means that it is unnecessary. At the end of the day the performance of the government is a reflection of the individuals we elect to participate in it. I believe that it is a good thing to hold government accountable for it's actions, but this is pretty much an open-ended proposition.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 01-23-11 at 02:58 PM.

  7. #47
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    Re: Is Chinese an ethnicity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    We don't come with a time limit.


    source
    Well in that case you shouldn't be worried at all about liberalism and your culture being under attack, since you seem to think that liberalism has an expiration date attached.

  8. #48
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    Re: Is Chinese an ethnicity?

    Repealing dadt, gay marriage, most of us don't support it.
    I believe repealing DADT was a good thing. In no way should a person's sexuality take precedence over his qualifications and job performance when it comes to keeping his job. I plan to join the military after college. I don't want to potentially lose quality leaders just because their personal lives were revealed.

    If you don't support gay marriage, you don't have to get one. However, the fact that there exist people in this world who love each other, yet can't enjoy the same benefits that others enjoy, I view as an injustice.

    Those in my part of the country feel we need some control over the border. What's happening is insane.
    I believe the debate about immigration and border control is superficial BS if we don't talk about the root cause of the problem, which is that Mexico sucks. Nobody seems to be talking about that. Every issue has a demand-side and a supply-side. The demand here is simply that people in Mexico live in such terrible conditions and situations that they see no recourse but to cross the border illegally. We should be talking about how to make Mexico not as ****ty.

  9. #49
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    Re: Is Chinese an ethnicity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alfons View Post
    It is not important who are Chinese, most important is that they will govern the Islamic USA and Europa in fifty years.
    The first "very conservative" was interesting, well written,informative, which I "like".
    Your response, Alfons, gives "very conservative" a bad name.

  10. #50
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    Re: Is Chinese an ethnicity?

    And yet my tradition culture is forced to accept your cultural norms vis a vie the courts.
    I think this is illusory. Nobody is forcing you from going to church or believing the things you believe. Nobody is forcing you (or any other traditional conservative) to get an abortion or a gay marriage. Anyways, the courts decisions can go either way. The court might make decisions that I personally think are anti-liberal and detrimental to the country (for instance Citizens United), but I will accept them because that is how our constitution works and in no way do i view liberalism as being "under attack" because the courts make a conservative decision.

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