View Poll Results: What do you think of Wikileaks and Julian Assange?

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  • Martrys of Free speech and of transparency of the government

    26 27.96%
  • Cold blooded terrorists

    44 47.31%
  • Neutral

    6 6.45%
  • Other (explain)

    17 18.28%
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Thread: Wikileaks

  1. #71
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    Re: Wikileaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    It's not up to journalists to make laws in this country. The determination will be made first by the courts whether they are journalists.
    Your concern has already been decided by the courts. Even a pamphlet is considered protected under the 1st amendment of "free press". If a pamphlet is considered a part of the Press then a website dedicated to releaseing news information definitly is. Also parodies of people are considered to be protected under the 1st amendment. If that is protected then why not a website?

    I know that you hope that they will not be protected by the 1st amendments free press clause. But past judgements on the various forms of things that are protected under the 1st amendment easily shows that wikileaks will fall under the same clause.

    Also you are wrong that the courts should decide on who is free press and who isn't. What would you say if the courts decided that the Wall Street Journal was not of the press? Or Time Magazine? Or any other news organization?
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  2. #72
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    Re: Wikileaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Your concern has already been decided by the courts. Even a pamphlet is considered protected under the 1st amendment of "free press". If a pamphlet is considered a part of the Press then a website dedicated to releaseing news information definitly is. Also parodies of people are considered to be protected under the 1st amendment. If that is protected then why not a website?

    I know that you hope that they will not be protected by the 1st amendments free press clause. But past judgements on the various forms of things that are protected under the 1st amendment easily shows that wikileaks will fall under the same clause.

    Also you are wrong that the courts should decide on who is free press and who isn't. What would you say if the courts decided that the Wall Street Journal was not of the press? Or Time Magazine? Or any other news organization?
    Is a pamphlet a website? Obviously not, so your makes assumptions that may not be true.
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  3. #73
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    Re: Wikileaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Your concern has already been decided by the courts. Even a pamphlet is considered protected under the 1st amendment of "free press". If a pamphlet is considered a part of the Press then a website dedicated to releaseing news information definitly is. Also parodies of people are considered to be protected under the 1st amendment. If that is protected then why not a website?

    I know that you hope that they will not be protected by the 1st amendments free press clause. But past judgements on the various forms of things that are protected under the 1st amendment easily shows that wikileaks will fall under the same clause.

    Also you are wrong that the courts should decide on who is free press and who isn't. What would you say if the courts decided that the Wall Street Journal was not of the press? Or Time Magazine? Or any other news organization?
    First Amendment jurisprudence is a bit more nuanced than this.

    If a reporter for the WSJ committed a crime in reporting on a story, the fact that he's a journalist doesn't mean that he gets a free pass.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  4. #74
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    Re: Wikileaks

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    The architects and sheep of Wikileaks are simply irresponsible pieces of **** that cause more friction between governments and peoples than would otherwise exist. The fact that other pieces of **** around the globe pretend that they stand for some rediculous struggle for "speech freedom" are likewise irresponsible and serve to encourage the friction.

    Bureaucracy, mistrust, and uneasy collaborations between governments exist. Released documents that remind our governments of this and reveal private discussions underneath the public handshakes and nods only force these same governments to have to explain the unnecessary and to cnduct needless damage control to continue what are already touchy subjects and deals.

    Only in the Western world will you find a people so willing to destroy everything that has been built in order to prove that their rights allow them to do absolutely anything and everything.
    Mistrust and uneasy collaberations are built because of dishonesty and dishonest acts. Perhaps those would not be a concern if people were more honest in thier dealings. What better way to force honesty than to expose the lies and deceit?
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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  5. #75
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    Re: Wikileaks

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    First Amendment jurisprudence is a bit more nuanced than this.

    If a reporter for the WSJ committed a crime in reporting on a story, the fact that he's a journalist doesn't mean that he gets a free pass.
    Agreed. If he committed a crime. Such a crime in this case would have to be in the form of conspiring with someone directly to get classified information. There is no evidence that wikileaks did this. Lots of supposition on the part of those that dislike wikileaks though. In anycase such a thing would be holding the person responsible. Not the organization itself. In other words while assaunge might be able to be prosecuted and even jailed there is nothing that could be done to legally stop wikileaks from continuing on with its objectives.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  6. #76
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    Re: Wikileaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Is a pamphlet a website? Obviously not, so your makes assumptions that may not be true.
    Nope its not. Agreed on that point. But what is the difference between a pamphlet and a website?
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  7. #77
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    Re: Wikileaks

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    First Amendment jurisprudence is a bit more nuanced than this.

    If a reporter for the WSJ committed a crime in reporting on a story, the fact that he's a journalist doesn't mean that he gets a free pass.
    But Wikileaks has committed no crime. They are not US citizens.
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  8. #78
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    Re: Wikileaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Agreed. If he committed a crime. Such a crime in this case would have to be in the form of conspiring with someone directly to get classified information. There is no evidence that wikileaks did this. Lots of supposition on the part of those that dislike wikileaks though.
    The government is currently investigating this, and like I said before, the facts that are publicly available lead me to believe that wikileaks had a much greater role than it pretends. We'll see.

    In anycase such a thing would be holding the person responsible. Not the organization itself. In other words while assaunge might be able to be prosecuted and even jailed there is nothing that could be done to legally stop wikileaks from continuing on with its objectives.
    The nature of conspiracy means that anyone who conspires to break the law is culpable. I doubt that Assange was the only one who was involved.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  9. #79
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    Re: Wikileaks

    Quote Originally Posted by vauge View Post
    But Wikileaks has committed no crime. They are not US citizens.
    You don't have to be a US citizen to violate a US law. If I were to commit mail fraud in Russia without ever leaving my apt in NY, I could still be prosecuted under Russian law.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Wikileaks

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    You don't have to be a US citizen to violate a US law. If I were to commit mail fraud in Russia without ever leaving my apt in NY, I could still be prosecuted under Russian law.
    What part of freedom of speech are you ignoring? The part that everyone is assured or the part that it is irrelevant to you because you feel like it in this case?
    If you analyse it, I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. -Ronald Reagan

    I am also known as "vauge".

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