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Which of these things would improve education in the United States?

Which of these things would improve education in the US?

  • Total voters
    65
chevydriver1123 said:
I believe the following would improvement the school system

1. Getting rid of the teachers union
2. Eliminating the federal department of education
3. Returning education to the states
4. Eliminate the red tape in order start private/charter/magnet schools
5. Merit pay
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What exactly is your expertise in each of these areas that have given you the beliefs that you have that they should be eliminated?
 
Number one os break the unions, along with public sector unions.
 
Ed Gein said:
Number one os break the unions, along with public sector unions.
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And your factual reasons related to educational performance for this belief would be what exactly?
 
DontDoIt said:
More private schools, less teacher unions and pensions. Anyone who has recently been in a public education system knows how big of a joke it really is. With all these programs implemented on schools that are not meeting education standards, a majority of them do nothing more than merely making it easier toward getting a degree without the adequate knowledge.
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Private schools benefit from being selective. Those who can afford a private school more often have more involved parents. There is little special about private schools other than their student population. If private schools had the general population, they would likely have the same problems public schools have. And if private schools depended on money based ontest scores, with a general population, they would do just what public schools are doing.

Also, I see some really have problems with the teacher's union. I don't belong to any union, and while I might concede any organization, including a union, is not likely perfect, doing away with the union would more likely have us trade one problem for another. And in the larger view, unions are comparitively a small problem.
 
haymarket said:
And your factual reasons related to educational performance for this belief would be what exactly?
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Unions do not serve students, the exist for the sole purpose of their own subsistence, growing like a malignant fetid tumor on the backs of children.
 
Ed Gein said:
Unions do not serve students, the exist for the sole purpose of their own subsistence, growing like a malignant fetid tumor on the backs of children.
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Again, this is what you believe. Could you explain the particular research or expertise you have that provides you with this unique 'insight' into teacher unions and the people who make up them?
 
haymarket said:
And your factual reasons related to educational performance for this belief would be what exactly?
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Private schools have no unions and perform better.
 
American said:
Private schools have no unions and perform better.
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I am eager to see your proof of this. Do please provide it.

And when you do that, please provide the proof that any actual measurement of better performance is due to a non-union staff.
 
American said:
Private schools have no unions and perform better.
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Causal relationship error. Any prefroming better is more likely linked to a the student population and not unions.
 
haymarket said:
Again, this is what you believe. Could you explain the particular research or expertise you have that provides you with this unique 'insight' into teacher unions and the people who make up them?
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teachers union are worthless. they don't give a rat's ass about the kids or the teachers. all they have become is a freakin politcal organization pushing their own twisted agenda. In my state, if you want to teach you are forced to join the union.

I worked with a guy who had taught for 18 years, spotless record. he was falsely accused of "touching" a female student in his classroom after school one day. (he wasn't even in his classroom after school the day in question. he had left early to pick up one of his kids who was sick and I had covered his last class of the day for him) the teacher's union didn't to a damn thing to help him. 18 months later, the lying little bitch recanted and confessed she made the whole thing up because her mother told her to so they could sue the school.

**** the unions
 
Ed Gein said:
Unions do not serve students, the exist for the sole purpose of their own subsistence, growing like a malignant fetid tumor on the backs of children.
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All unions serve their members. Students are not memebers, just a auto unions are not for the car buyer. However, this doesn't make either anti students or car buyers.
 
OscarB63 said:
teachers union are worthless. they don't give a rat's ass about the kids or the teachers. all they have become is a freakin politcal organization pushing their own twisted agenda. In my state, if you want to teach you are forced to join the union.

I worked with a guy who had taught for 18 years, spotless record. he was falsely accused of "touching" a female student in his classroom after school one day. (he wasn't even in his classroom after school the day in question. he had left early to pick up one of his kids who was sick and I had covered his last class of the day for him) the teacher's union didn't to a damn thing to help him. 18 months later, the lying little bitch recanted and confessed she made the whole thing up because her mother told her to so they could sue the school.

**** the unions
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1- you attack teachers unions and fail to document any of your charges against them but think they are too powerful
2- so your point is that teachers unions are not powerful enough because they could not help your buddy

can you please make up your mind?
can you please provide some documentation for your charges about teachers and unions?
 
Boo Radley said:
Causal relationship error. Any prefroming better is more likely linked to a the student population and not unions.
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lets await such 'proof' before we give him any credit for what it may contain.
 
haymarket said:
lets await such 'proof' before we give him any credit for what it may contain.
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We should certainly ask for proof, but for me it doesn't matter. He makes so many leaps of logic that not having the proof is the least of his troubles (reasoning is more important than research). ;)
 
Boo Radley said:
We should certainly ask for proof, but for me it doesn't matter. He makes so many leaps of logic that not having the proof is the least of his troubles (reasoning is more important than research). ;)
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good point. I suspect we are dealing with a belief system rather than anything rational that can be supported by objective evidence.
 
DontDoIt said:
I do consider a majority of public education a joke. I seen many of my classmates to this day that are near the intelligent level of a rock. I know this is not the school/teachers entirely, but the system needs to have some pretty heavy changes associated to it.
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How many schools did you attend? How hard did these classmates work in school? What kind of support did their parents provide? You seem to be forming your opinion of the entire educational system on your limited experience. This cannot lead to an accurate picture of education.
 
You failed to include music and the other arts. That would be a mistake.
 
American said:
Private schools have no unions and perform better.
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Private schools perform better because they can select their students. They don't have to take or keep students with learning and behavior problems. The parents of private school students tend to be more involved because they are paying for the education.
 
haymarket said:
Other than observing fellow former classmates whose basic intelligence may indeed have nothing to do with the schools they attended, what do you base your opinion on exactly?
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Gee I don't know, maybe the high school dropout rate, standards being exceedingly easier year to year, and yet people still not being able to meet the requirements. The need for more and more special education teachers, just the ones I know of off the top of my head.


Boo Radley said:
Private schools benefit from being selective. Those who can afford a private school more often have more involved parents. There is little special about private schools other than their student population. If private schools had the general population, they would likely have the same problems public schools have. And if private schools depended on money based ontest scores, with a general population, they would do just what public schools are doing.

Also, I see some really have problems with the teacher's union. I don't belong to any union, and while I might concede any organization, including a union, is not likely perfect, doing away with the union would more likely have us trade one problem for another. And in the larger view, unions are comparitively a small problem.
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I'm not saying you have to do away with unions, if you did chances are like you said, it would just worsen things.
 
Layla_Z said:
Private schools perform better because they can select their students. They don't have to take or keep students with learning and behavior problems. The parents of private school students tend to be more involved because they are paying for the education.
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and we have seen no authoritative evidence to properly substantiate that claim in the first place.
 
from Dontdoit on his criticism of the public schools


Gee I don't know, maybe the high school dropout rate, standards being exceedingly easier year to year, and yet people still not being able to meet the requirements. The need for more and more special education teachers, just the ones I know of off the top of my head.
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There are many school districts with an extremely low dropout rate. There are many school districts with very high standards. There are countless people in many school districts who have no trouble meeting the requirements. And why is the increase in special education teachers any indication of anything other than that we need more special education teachers?
 
Layla_Z said:
Private schools perform better because they can select their students. They don't have to take or keep students with learning and behavior problems. The parents of private school students tend to be more involved because they are paying for the education.
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Your understanding of private schools is limited, I see. Many, many, kids with learning and behavior problems go to private schools. The selection of the students is also very limited and not nearly as much a factor in their success as you wish it to be.
 
Henrin said:
Your understanding of private schools is limited, I see. Many, many, kids with learning and behavior problems go to private schools. The selection of the students is also very limited and not nearly as much a factor in their success as you wish it to be.
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Depends on the school. But there is a tendency, a real tendency to have more involved parents. This means much more than any other factor. And this contributes to any success of the school more than any other factor. Private schools don't terach differently. They don't have better teachers, overall, or any different, let alone better methods.
 
Boo Radley said:
Depends on the school. But there is a tendency, a real tendency to have more involved parents.
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That is because they are paying for the service. If the parent gets something for nothing or at least they get that impression the parent will most likely not be involved in it. All in all, that is how people work and that is not different in education.

This means much more than any other factor. And this contributes to any success of the school more than any other factor.
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Indeed.

Private schools don't terach differently. They don't have better teachers, overall, or any different, let alone better methods.
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In a way they do teach differently. With smaller class sizes and the pressure from the parents the teachers and schools will take greater care in the individual learning of each student. With a mass of students and no obvious incentive for the parent the public schools have little chance of matching the success.
 
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Henrin said:
Your understanding of private schools is limited, I see. Many, many, kids with learning and behavior problems go to private schools. The selection of the students is also very limited and not nearly as much a factor in their success as you wish it to be.
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You know nothing of my understanding of education. The fact remains that private schools can be exclusive when public schools cannot. As I said earlier, parents who take the time to apply and pay for private school are going to be more involved in their child's education. Comparing private school results to public school results is not a fair comparison.

Also, there is no guarantee that a private school education is a good education. It varies from state to state but private schools don't have to abide by the same standards as public schools.
 
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