Which of these things would improve education in the United States?

MaggieD said:

One third of all high schoolers don't graduate. Appalling....I thought it was more of an inner-city problem, but this stat is from PEW and is nationwide. http://www.pew-partnership.org/pdf/dropout_overview.pdf And, of course, this doesn't mean that the 2/3 got even a marginal education...

You will never convince me that the very jakes who created a failing educational system in our country will be the ones to solve it. I believed that too long vis a vis the Congress of the United States of America.

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There is not a, "failing educational system in our country".
There IS a, "failing societal and parental system in our country", though.

As usual, people lay the blame in the wrong place. I assume it is PC to do so, and that is a shame.

haymarket said:

from Maggie D




If you profess to know anything about the actual system of education in America you will know that
1- there is no single American system of education
2- there are tens of thousands of different local systems of education
3- their quality varies widely and significantly
4- nations with a national curriculum like Japan provide a much more accurate measurement of what students learn on the standardized tests because
5- the curriculum in those nations is perfectly dovetailed into the material on the standardized test
6- in America we are frequently testing children on material they never covered in a classroom

And about the jobs part of your comment.... actually a national curriculum would SAVE the taxpayers lots of money because it would eliminate duplication of the same jobs now being done in tens ofthousands of different school systems in the field of curriculum development, testing and other areas.

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I disagree though,

1. This will decrease the amount of competition in our schools. Everyone will be learning and teaching the same thing.
2. Designing a single curriculum that is appropriate for all students in the country is extremely difficult. You are going to leave some students behind, or slow some students down.

MaggieD said:

You don't have one thing! I can vote for.

Vouchers.

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Vouchers are on the list...

For all of you who say "get the parents involved more," I can't help but play the cynic and say that this seems like an impractical solution for national education.

Please don't think my position is that families shouldn't be involved with the education of their children - they should.

However, this is a place to debate politics, which are the policies of the government. And, quite frankly, the government is incapable of forcing parents to be involved in the education of children, and, what's more, it will never have the capability of forcing parents to get involved in their children's education.

Also, I think that most parents want to be involved in their kids' education. However, parents are people too and they have their own limitations. Highest on that list is financial - they have to balance their ability to get involved with their ability to earn a paycheck. This is especially the case with the low income earners who are targeted the most with this criticism.

So purely as an act of policy, I think the most pragmatic things to consider are those things we could do to enhance the education of children despite parental involvement, since the government has no control over parental involvement with regards to their children's education.

the problem is with the students and their parents. if the kids don't give a rat's ass, the best schools in the world aren't going to make a difference.

"you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink"

"you can send a kid to school, but you can't make him think"

GIGO - garbage in, garbage out.

give a world class chef a turd and two pieces of bread and no matter what he does with it, you are going to end up with a **** sandwich.

samsmart said:

For all of you who say "get the parents involved more," I can't help but play the cynic and say that this seems like an impractical solution for national education.

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The entire purpose of the welfare schools is to provide an education for children whose parents can't or won't provide for it themselves. We don't need to have policy discussions about what to do with children whose parents are involved.

haymarket said:

What makes you think that if 1/3 do not graduate, that is not the way it should be? What makes you think that an additional 1/3 can graduate in an assembly line system that often bears no relationship to what is needed to truly educate children? What makes you think that it was any different at any other time in our history?

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I am surely not going to argue THAT point...The fact that 1/3 of students don't graduate high school represents a failure of our educational system, in my opinion. As to historically:

During the past 25 years, growing wage differentials between high school graduates and dropouts increased the economic incentives to graduate high school. The real wages of high school dropouts have declined since the early 1970s while those of more skilled workers have risen sharply.1 Heckman, Lochner, and Todd (2008) show that in recent decades, the internal rate of return to graduating high school compared to dropping out has increased dramatically and is now over 50 percent. Therefore, it is surprising and disturbing that, at a time when the premium for skills has increased and the return to graduating high school has risen, the high school dropout rate in America is increasing. America is becoming a polarised society. Proportionately more American youth are going to college and graduating than ever before. At the same time, proportionately more are failing to complete high school.

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Educated in America: College graduates and high school dropouts | vox - Research-based policy analysis and commentary from leading economists

samsmart said:

For all of you who say "get the parents involved more," I can't help but play the cynic and say that this seems like an impractical solution for national education.

Please don't think my position is that families shouldn't be involved with the education of their children - they should.

However, this is a place to debate politics, which are the policies of the government. And, quite frankly, the government is incapable of forcing parents to be involved in the education of children, and, what's more, it will never have the capability of forcing parents to get involved in their children's education.

Also, I think that most parents want to be involved in their kids' education. However, parents are people too and they have their own limitations. Highest on that list is financial - they have to balance their ability to get involved with their ability to earn a paycheck. This is especially the case with the low income earners who are targeted the most with this criticism.

So purely as an act of policy, I think the most pragmatic things to consider are those things we could do to enhance the education of children despite parental involvement, since the government has no control over parental involvement with regards to their children's education.

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the answer to that is simple; financial incentives. once the parents have skin in the game, they will get involved.

Bodhisattva said:

There is not a, "failing educational system in our country".
There IS a, "failing societal and parental system in our country", though.

As usual, people lay the blame in the wrong place. I assume it is PC to do so, and that is a shame.

Click to expand...

Is it not failing when students who have no intention of learning, who disrupt every single moment of time in the classroom, are kept in the schools because the schools are paid by attendance?

Is it not failing when students are promoted when they can't even read?

Is it not failing when students can't even speak ENGLISH....using ebonics slang instead of proper grammar...and STILL they are promoted?

Is it not failing when inner city girls' main objective in life is to get pregnant and get on the dole?

It's failing all right. But nobody cares -- especially about those inner city kids whose only option, when they don't graduate, is to pimp themselves, pimp others or sell dope.

What do you guys think about the idea of online education, to reduce the need for so many teachers and brick-and-mortar schools? It would be easy to produce lessons that could be reused for several years at no additional cost, and one teacher could easily handle classes of 100+ students since there wouldn't be an issue with class disruption or being stuck in the back of a crowded auditorium. This will free up a lot more taxpayer money to be invested in other aspects of education, and it will free students from the stranglehold of their school district so that students will no longer be doomed by their geography. Furthermore, it would allow students to work at their own pace, so the smart kids aren't bored and the remedial kids aren't forgotten.

I realize that online education is probably not quite good enough yet to compete with the best schools in the country...but I can't help but think that it would be a MAJOR improvement for the millions of kids trapped in inner-city schools where teachers don't teach and students fear for their safety, or poor rural schools where the curriculum is severely limited by lack of funding and lack of interest.

Interesting study:

The Statistics

Alison Kepner of The News Journal reports that dropouts are a problem in many states but Delaware has had a consistent graduation percentage below the national average. Only six out of 10 Delaware high schoolers will graduate by 2010. Dropouts are more likely to be --

•unemployed
•in prison
•living in poverty
•receiving government assistance
•less healthy
•divorced
•single parents
When 500 dropouts, ages 16-25, were interviewed, they gave many reasons for leaving school:

•47% said classes were not interesting (system problem)
•43% missed too many days to catch up (family problem)
•45% entered high school poorly prepared by their earlier schooling (system problem)
•69% said they were not motivated to work hard (system problem)
•35% said they were failing (system problem)
•32% said they left to get a job (family problem)
•25% left to become parents (family problem)
•22% left to take care of a relative (family problem)
Two-thirds said they would have tried harder if they'd been motivated (system problem)

This study makes it pretty clear in my mind that it's a failure of the educational system combined with a failure on the part of parents...

Dropouts Give Reasons: Why do students leave high school without a diploma?



Read more at Suite101: Dropouts Give Reasons: Why do students leave high school without a diploma? Dropouts Give Reasons: Why do students leave high school without a diploma?

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OscarB63 said:

the problem is with the students and their parents. if the kids don't give a rat's ass, the best schools in the world aren't going to make a difference.

"you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink"

"you can send a kid to school, but you can't make him think"

GIGO - garbage in, garbage out.

give a world class chef a turd and two pieces of bread and no matter what he does with it, you are going to end up with a **** sandwich.

Click to expand...

I actually find myself agreeing with you -- a sure sign I need a med check-up or something.

While I think that the educational standard in the US is abhorrently low, I think that's a symptom, not the problem. The problem is, as you said, the motivation of the children, and the support of their parents, or lack thereof.

To me, the reason presents itself to be the uncaring culture in Middle-Class, Suburbia American homes. But how does one fix that?

Kandahar said:

What do you guys think about the idea of online education, to reduce the need for so many teachers and brick-and-mortar schools? It would be easy to produce lessons that could be reused for several years at no additional cost, and one teacher could easily handle classes of 100+ students since there wouldn't be an issue with class disruption or being stuck in the back of a crowded auditorium. This will free up a lot more taxpayer money to be invested in other aspects of education, and it will free students from the stranglehold of their school district so that students will no longer be doomed by their geography. Furthermore, it would allow students to work at their own pace, so the smart kids aren't bored and the remedial kids aren't forgotten.

I realize that online education is probably not quite good enough yet to compete with the best schools in the country...but I can't help but think that it would be a MAJOR improvement for the millions of kids trapped in inner-city schools where teachers don't teach and students fear for their safety, or poor rural schools where the curriculum is severely limited by lack of funding and lack of interest.

Click to expand...

Well, the problem with online education is socializing children. Children need to understand how to function with other people. They need to learn how to "play nice" as well as deal with "other bad kids." They aren't going to be kids forever, after all, and they aren't always going to have a teacher or a mommy and daddy to look out for them.

Which means they need to learn how to make friends with others so they can all look out for each other. Kids also need to be socialized for teamwork functions. And by that, I don't mean projects where individual kids do different components of the same project - I mean where they all work together on every component of the same project. That type of socialization will help them tremendously when they grow up and have to be a part of team when they get a job.

I definitely think that online education can be a supplement for school - I have been able to learn more on my own via Wikipedia than I ever could using textbooks and teachers at my high school. But there are many types of education, and social education is just as important as academic or technical education.

In my mind, there are many, many ways in which the public school system could be improved.

Which changes need to be made vary widely from school to school, and probably from classroom to classroom (teacher to teacher, even).

But, in a general way, several things spring to mind:

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Parental involvement in learning:

Parents have become far to uninvolved, in general, as opposed to previous generations.

I think it could easily be demonstrated that parental involvement is behind nearly all of the higher-quality products of the public education factory.

Key here, however, is to point out that, in my mind, those high-quality products are produced despite the problems of the public school system, not because of it.

Sure, in some areas the public schools may have a good record, but I’ll only be satisfied when it’s 99% or better.
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“Factory” mentality:

Far too often, I think, public schools try to implement a “one size fits all” teaching method, wherein those who have the most issues with the chosen system are passed on to the special education section.

Personally, I would guess that at most, 1% of the students have a learning disability that can be treated by giving them drugs.

The rest, simply need a different teaching method applied.

To solve this, students should be classified by learning type, if such a classification can be developed.

Those who learn best in one way, are taught together; and those who learn better in another way, are also taught together. Learning methods that complement each other can be combined, but I’m sure there are some students that would learn better left alone, and others who would learn better in a more group-based environment.
That said, learning about others is key to developing a child (I would think), so there should be times when students of one learning type gather with another, and such…
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Teacher quality/Teacher unions:

• Poor quality teachers need to be removed from the teacher pool permanently.
  
• Blacklist em’, if a method to do so can be developed without being abused too much.
  
• Teachers unions should, at most, be organized at the state level, and I would far prefer at the county/parish level.
• Loose coalitions that have, like, a newsletter they send around with teaching tips and developments in the field, can be allowed at a multi-state or national/international level.
• They can temporarily band together to support a federal education bill or whatnot that they agree with, but it should be voluntary, and I can see one state’s teacher unions agreeing and another’s disagreeing.

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School boards:

Need to be reorganized.

Some ideas:

• Must include a teacher/former teacher as one member.
• Must include a parent of a currently enrolled child or very recently graduated child as a member. Obviously, the potential for favoritism exists, but I think the benefit of a connection to the parents of current students is necessary.
• Must include a junior/senior student, perhaps class president? Currently, I believe the class president bit is sort of like this, but they cannot be a voting member of the school board.
• Parent cannot be related to student member.
• Must include a number of professional education experts, qualifications as determined by the school board in each county, with a more general requirement level determined at the state and federal levels. Number of education experts must be less than the majority, I think. But I’m not well versed in this area, by any means, having been home-schooled.

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Well, I’m sure a few more ideas are bouncing around in my crazy mind, but I’ve probably passed WOT status already, so…

samsmart said:

Well, the problem with online education is socializing children. Children need to understand how to function with other people. They need to learn how to "play nice" as well as deal with "other bad kids." They aren't going to be kids forever, after all, and they aren't always going to have a teacher or a mommy and daddy to look out for them.

Which means they need to learn how to make friends with others so they can all look out for each other. Kids also need to be socialized for teamwork functions. And by that, I don't mean projects where individual kids do different components of the same project - I mean where they all work together on every component of the same project. That type of socialization will help them tremendously when they grow up and have to be a part of team when they get a job.

I definitely think that online education can be a supplement for school - I have been able to learn more on my own via Wikipedia than I ever could using textbooks and teachers at my high school. But there are many types of education, and social education is just as important as academic or technical education.

Click to expand...

This making friends bit.

It's important, I agree, but not overly so.

I was homeschooled through highschool, and had little peer-interaction outside the homeschooling community in my area.

I received a crash-course in some types of interactions when I tried to go to college.

I received further training when I got my first jobs and such.

However, I think all of those types of things happen to the majority of us, whether we go to public school or are home-schooled, or something in-between.

The key, IMO, is to prepare the student as best you can, but much of the adaptation to different environments and interactions must be learnt on the fly.

Or, “the hard way”.

I dunno…

You know (afterthought) - I signed up for 'social problems' which is a sociology class designed to examine and discuss all sorts of social issues - and find actual solutions in an unbiased, factual and 'they did this - it worked - they now have no more teen pregnancy' type of way.

The barrier to all sorts of solutions is that people don't WANT to do things.

There are solutions to countless problems we're dealing with and instead of making it top priority to solve X . . this problem here . . X they banter around and try to please everyone, let their views get muddled over and their goals get melted over the extremists or the lobbyists.

Instead of doing *what they know will work* - they're playing a game and not actually trying to fix anything.

cpwill said:

the answer to that is simple; financial incentives. once the parents have skin in the game, they will get involved.

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Money in place of love and disipline........works every time!

MaggieD said:

Is it not failing when students who have no intention of learning, who disrupt every single moment of time in the classroom, are kept in the schools because the schools are paid by attendance?

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No that is societal and parental failures...

Is it not failing when students are promoted when they can't even read?

Is it not failing when students can't even speak ENGLISH....using ebonics slang instead of proper grammar...and STILL they are promoted?

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That is not the system, that is politics. The system can and would educate students if the teachers were left alone to teach, and hold students back as needed. Admins are pressured, and that sucks. That is part of the system, but it is reacting to political and monetary pressures... not the curriculum or the teachers or the behaviour standards. It is like there are two systems. One that runs the money and politics and the one that runs the students and knowledge. Is one failing? Perhaps, but that is the political side, if anything.

Is it not failing when inner city girls' main objective in life is to get pregnant and get on the dole?

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Nope, again, that is entirely a societal and parental failure... Seriously. How could you even say this? How is it the schools/education systems fault that a girl wants to get pregnant? Or do drugs? Or shoot somebody? Seriously... where do you think that the responsiblity really lies... in the school or in the individual or culture that promotes said behaviour?

It's failing all right. But nobody cares -- especially about those inner city kids whose only option, when they don't graduate, is to pimp themselves, pimp others or sell dope

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Nope, they have every opportunity to embrace education and gain from it. They CHOOSE not to. Have you taught in the inner city? I have. Have you taught gang youths? I have. Have you met with the parents of these kids and heard what they have to say? I have. If you have some experience in this, let me know, otherwise your opinion is just that... an opinion.

MaggieD said:

Interesting study:
•47% said classes were not interesting (system problem)

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How in the world did kids ever pass and succeed back in the day? :roll:

Todays students have access to the internet, powerpoint, video, movies, CD recordings, newspapers, art supplies, differentiated instruction, improved teaching techniques... etc etc etc. Wasn't present even 100 years ago... but students succeeded!

•43% missed too many days to catch up (family problem)

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Family problem

•45% entered high school poorly prepared by their earlier schooling (system problem)

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Do you have any idea how often I hear this... and then when the previous teacher is asked, they covered all the things that the student is complaining about. Most of you bitching have no idea... students will say that they never learned something a month after you teach them and test them. Many other students will roll their eyes at these students, but when battling cell phones and i-pods in class, it is no wonder that they dont remember.

•69% said they were not motivated to work hard (system problem)

Two-thirds said they would have tried harder if they'd been motivated (system problem)

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Lacking self interest or general imagination skills. School is not MTV. School is not 400 texts in a day. School is not sports. School is not Facebook or My Space. What the hell is wrong with some of you that blame the school and not the student? What I see is enabling behaviour that is all about being PC and absolving students of personal responsibility, and that is the very problem, a societal one that embraces failure and blames others for it. It is everywhere. Spill coffee in your lap, sue MacDonalds. Drop the toaster in you bathtub while taking a bath... sue the toaster complany. It is so freaking unbelievable and so incredibly disheartening to hear grow adults make such excuses.

•35% said they were failing (system problem)

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How is a student failing the systems problem? How idiotic is that? Students fail (lose) in education just like they lose sport.

EVERYBODY IS NOT A WINNER.

•32% said they left to get a job (family problem)

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Family problem

•25% left to become parents (family problem)

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Family problem

•22% left to take care of a relative (family problem)

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Family problem


Sounds like the real problem is the parents and society that allows students to fail and then blames somebody else for the failure. Pathetic. :doh

Bodhisattva said:

How in the world did kids ever pass and succeed back in the day? :roll:

Todays students have access to the internet, powerpoint, video, movies, CD recordings, newspapers, art supplies, differentiated instruction, improved teaching techniques... etc etc etc. Wasn't present even 100 years ago... but students succeeded!



Family problem



Do you have any idea how often I hear this... and then when the previous teacher is asked, they covered all the things that the student is complaining about. Most of you bitching have no idea... students will say that they never learned something a month after you teach them and test them. Many other students will roll their eyes at these students, but when battling cell phones and i-pods in class, it is no wonder that they dont remember.



Lacking self interest or general imagination skills. School is not MTV. School is not 400 texts in a day. School is not sports. School is not Facebook or My Space. What the hell is wrong with some of you that blame the school and not the student? What I see is enabling behaviour that is all about being PC and absolving students of personal responsibility, and that is the very problem, a societal one that embraces failure and blames others for it. It is everywhere. Spill coffee in your lap, sue MacDonalds. Drop the toaster in you bathtub while taking a bath... sue the toaster complany. It is so freaking unbelievable and so incredibly disheartening to hear grow adults make such excuses.



How is a student failing the systems problem? How idiotic is that? Students fail (lose) in education just like they lose sport.

EVERYBODY IS NOT A WINNER.



Family problem



Family problem



Family problem


Sounds like the real problem is the parents and society that allows students to fail and then blames somebody else for the failure. Pathetic. :doh

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Instead of getting so defensive (I'm assuming you're a teacher) perhaps you should actually read those comments from dropouts without the chip on your shoulder and try to think about how those problems can be solved.

There are some exceptions to this, but I think the people who just throw up their hands and say "Parents need to do a better job" are really using that as an excuse to avoid implementing any solutions that we, as a society, can actually change. It's equivalent to saying "Nothing needs to be changed." There have always been good parents and bad parents, and probably always will be. But society's ability to change that is rather limited. We can, however, do a great deal to change how our students are educated if we are willing to commit to it.

Kandahar said:

Instead of getting so defensive (I'm assuming you're a teacher) perhaps you should actually read those comments from dropouts without the chip on your shoulder and try to think about how those problems can be solved.

There are some exceptions to this, but I think the people who just throw up their hands and say "Parents need to do a better job" are really using that as an excuse to avoid implementing any solutions that we, as a society, can actually change. It's equivalent to saying "Nothing needs to be changed." There have always been good parents and bad parents, and probably always will be. But society's ability to change that is rather limited. We can, however, do a great deal to change how our students are educated if we are willing to commit to it.

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Bodhisattva's post is right on. Knowing how the system and kids really work is not a chip on your shoulder but experience. Many kids never seem to want to admit to learning anything. It is easy for them and the parents to blame earlier teachers. I remember a girl that graduated several years ago and went to college. Her father loved to blame the school for everything and was known to yell at teachers but only when he was drunk. He took great joy is complaining at board meetings or where anyone would listen that his daughter struggled in college because her high school education didn't prepare her. What he didn't tell everyone is that the teachers and counselor had told her to take advanced classes to prepare for college but she chose only easy classes her senior year. So whose fault was her lack of success? This is just one example of what goes on again and again.

Yes, there have always been good and bad parents but many things are much more difficult about teaching then they used to be. There are more parents who don't care or are too busy to care. Kids don't want to be taught, they want to be entertained. They have come to expect instant gratification and that is not what school is about. I have so many kids constantly complain that the subject is hard. I ask them when anyone told them it would be easy. I've dealt with so many great parents who support the school and the teachers and and almost 100% of the time those kids do well. I've also dealt with parents who couldn't be bothered to care about their child's education. Those kids almost always do poorly. I've also had the joy to dealing with the "blame the teacher" parent who thinks their child does nothing wrong and the teacher is just picking on them.

Does this mean that all the problems with education are the parents' fault? Of course it doesn't but a teacher can only build with the raw materials he or she is given.

Kandahar said:

Instead of getting so defensive (I'm assuming you're a teacher) perhaps you should actually read those comments from dropouts without the chip on your shoulder and try to think about how those problems can be solved.

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How in the world am I being defensive? Strange... This is a debate site, after all. I tire of hearing ignorant people say stupid things... don't you? Regarding solving the problem, that is what teachers and the education system address and attempt to solve yearly... daily, in fact.

There are some exceptions to this, but I think the people who just throw up their hands and say "Parents need to do a better job" are really using that as an excuse to avoid implementing any solutions that we, as a society, can actually change. It's equivalent to saying "Nothing needs to be changed." There have always been good parents and bad parents, and probably always will be. But society's ability to change that is rather limited. We can, however, do a great deal to change how our students are educated if we are willing to commit to it.

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Who is saying that the education system can't and shouldn't change? Perhaps instead of thinking that I have a chip on my shoulder, you should look to yourself and see why you are making such ridiculous assumptions like "nothing needs to be changed". In fact, the education system, mainly how teachers manage lessons, what to teach and how to teach it, is reviewed and reflected upon many many times over the course of the year in staff meetings, department meetings, with PD and more...

The issue here is not that. The issue is that people blindly and ignorantly attack teachers and the education system. I counter it and state that many of the points being brought up against teachers and education are really society and parenting... and what happens? You come along and attack me and call me defensive and that I have a chip. Seems like you are exactly what I am describing as above, and a large part of the problem.

Layla_Z said:

Bodhisattva's post is right on. Knowing how the system and kids really work is not a chip on your shoulder but experience.

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Experience... that is all it is, really.

Many kids never seem to want to admit to learning anything. It is easy for them and the parents to blame earlier teachers.

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It is always kinda shocking when this happens...

Yes, there have always been good and bad parents but many things are much more difficult about teaching then they used to be. There are more parents who don't care or are too busy to care. Kids don't want to be taught, they want to be entertained. They have come to expect instant gratification and that is not what school is about. I have so many kids constantly complain that the subject is hard. I ask them when anyone told them it would be easy.

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Seriously... How many time is there a kid who sits there after you prepared them to listen, went over the directions, background info, etc. have written the page number on the board... and they sit there until you come to them and ask why they aren't working... they say they don't know what to do. They don't take initiative to look things up in the index or table of contents... it is astounding.

I've dealt with so many great parents who support the school and the teachers and and almost 100% of the time those kids do well. I've also dealt with parents who couldn't be bothered to care about their child's education. Those kids almost always do poorly. I've also had the joy to dealing with the "blame the teacher" parent who thinks their child does nothing wrong and the teacher is just picking on them.

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Yep...

Does this mean that all the problems with education are the parents' fault? Of course it doesn't but a teacher can only build with the raw materials he or she is given.

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Especially in secondary where you only have the student for three or four hours a week... that isn't much time.

Bodhisattva said:

Experience... that is all it is, really.



It is always kinda shocking when this happens...



Seriously... How many time is there a kid who sits there after you prepared them to listen, went over the directions, background info, etc. have written the page number on the board... and they sit there until you come to them and ask why they aren't working... they say they don't know what to do. They don't take initiative to look things up in the index or table of contents... it is astounding.



Yep...



Especially in secondary where you only have the student for three or four hours a week... that isn't much time.

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I had this happen the other day. I had given what I will admit were elaborate instructions about the group activity we were going to do. I then divided the kids into their groups and told them to begin. One kid came up to me and said that he didn't know what to do or what group he was in because he hadn't paid attention. I told him, "That's unfortunate," and he got mad at me. It's crazy the way some kids act.

Layla_Z said:

I had this happen the other day. I had given what I will admit were elaborate instructions about the group activity we were going to do. I then divided the kids into their groups and told them to begin. One kid came up to me and said that he didn't know what to do or what group he was in because he hadn't paid attention. I told him, "That's unfortunate," and he got mad at me. It's crazy the way some kids act.

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That happens to me too, and the worst part is that they can't even figure out that they should or could ask another student what they are doing. They end up not passing and getting upset, or worse, not caring.