View Poll Results: Which of these things would improve education in the US?

Voters
85. You may not vote on this poll
  • Longer school days

    14 16.47%
  • Longer school years

    31 36.47%
  • Better pay for teachers

    29 34.12%
  • More charter schools

    27 31.76%
  • More public vouchers for private schools

    34 40.00%
  • Weakening teachers' unions

    42 49.41%
  • More funding

    31 36.47%
  • Reallocation of funding (e.g. on a state level instead of on a district level)

    27 31.76%
  • Firing teachers who fail to perform to the standards the school board expects

    50 58.82%
  • More online education, replacing some brick-and-mortar schools

    17 20.00%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 7 of 25 FirstFirst ... 5678917 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 249

Thread: Which of these things would improve education in the United States?

  1. #61
    Sage


    MaggieD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Chicago Area
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    43,243
    Blog Entries
    43

    Re: Which of these things would improve education in the United States?

    Interesting study:

    The Statistics

    Alison Kepner of The News Journal reports that dropouts are a problem in many states but Delaware has had a consistent graduation percentage below the national average. Only six out of 10 Delaware high schoolers will graduate by 2010. Dropouts are more likely to be --

    •unemployed
    •in prison
    •living in poverty
    •receiving government assistance
    •less healthy
    •divorced
    •single parents
    When 500 dropouts, ages 16-25, were interviewed, they gave many reasons for leaving school:

    •47% said classes were not interesting (system problem)
    •43% missed too many days to catch up (family problem)
    •45% entered high school poorly prepared by their earlier schooling (system problem)
    •69% said they were not motivated to work hard (system problem)
    •35% said they were failing (system problem)
    •32% said they left to get a job (family problem)
    •25% left to become parents (family problem)
    •22% left to take care of a relative (family problem)
    Two-thirds said they would have tried harder if they'd been motivated (system problem)

    This study makes it pretty clear in my mind that it's a failure of the educational system combined with a failure on the part of parents...

    Dropouts Give Reasons: Why do students leave high school without a diploma?



    Read more at Suite101: Dropouts Give Reasons: Why do students leave high school without a diploma? Dropouts Give Reasons: Why do students leave high school without a diploma?
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  2. #62
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    London, England and Dijon, France
    Last Seen
    03-06-11 @ 01:40 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    598

    Re: Which of these things would improve education in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    the problem is with the students and their parents. if the kids don't give a rat's ass, the best schools in the world aren't going to make a difference.

    "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink"

    "you can send a kid to school, but you can't make him think"

    GIGO - garbage in, garbage out.

    give a world class chef a turd and two pieces of bread and no matter what he does with it, you are going to end up with a **** sandwich.
    I actually find myself agreeing with you -- a sure sign I need a med check-up or something. :P

    While I think that the educational standard in the US is abhorrently low, I think that's a symptom, not the problem. The problem is, as you said, the motivation of the children, and the support of their parents, or lack thereof.

    To me, the reason presents itself to be the uncaring culture in Middle-Class, Suburbia American homes. But how does one fix that?

  3. #63
    Sage
    samsmart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,316
    Blog Entries
    37

    Re: Which of these things would improve education in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    What do you guys think about the idea of online education, to reduce the need for so many teachers and brick-and-mortar schools? It would be easy to produce lessons that could be reused for several years at no additional cost, and one teacher could easily handle classes of 100+ students since there wouldn't be an issue with class disruption or being stuck in the back of a crowded auditorium. This will free up a lot more taxpayer money to be invested in other aspects of education, and it will free students from the stranglehold of their school district so that students will no longer be doomed by their geography. Furthermore, it would allow students to work at their own pace, so the smart kids aren't bored and the remedial kids aren't forgotten.

    I realize that online education is probably not quite good enough yet to compete with the best schools in the country...but I can't help but think that it would be a MAJOR improvement for the millions of kids trapped in inner-city schools where teachers don't teach and students fear for their safety, or poor rural schools where the curriculum is severely limited by lack of funding and lack of interest.
    Well, the problem with online education is socializing children. Children need to understand how to function with other people. They need to learn how to "play nice" as well as deal with "other bad kids." They aren't going to be kids forever, after all, and they aren't always going to have a teacher or a mommy and daddy to look out for them.

    Which means they need to learn how to make friends with others so they can all look out for each other. Kids also need to be socialized for teamwork functions. And by that, I don't mean projects where individual kids do different components of the same project - I mean where they all work together on every component of the same project. That type of socialization will help them tremendously when they grow up and have to be a part of team when they get a job.

    I definitely think that online education can be a supplement for school - I have been able to learn more on my own via Wikipedia than I ever could using textbooks and teachers at my high school. But there are many types of education, and social education is just as important as academic or technical education.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  4. #64
    Sporadic insanity normal.


    The Mark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    19,736

    Re: Which of these things would improve education in the United States?

    In my mind, there are many, many ways in which the public school system could be improved.

    Which changes need to be made vary widely from school to school, and probably from classroom to classroom (teacher to teacher, even).

    But, in a general way, several things spring to mind:

    --------------
    Parental involvement in learning:

    Parents have become far to uninvolved, in general, as opposed to previous generations.

    I think it could easily be demonstrated that parental involvement is behind nearly all of the higher-quality products of the public education factory.

    Key here, however, is to point out that, in my mind, those high-quality products are produced despite the problems of the public school system, not because of it.

    Sure, in some areas the public schools may have a good record, but I’ll only be satisfied when it’s 99% or better.
    --------------
    --------------
    “Factory” mentality:

    Far too often, I think, public schools try to implement a “one size fits all” teaching method, wherein those who have the most issues with the chosen system are passed on to the special education section.

    Personally, I would guess that at most, 1% of the students have a learning disability that can be treated by giving them drugs.

    The rest, simply need a different teaching method applied.

    To solve this, students should be classified by learning type, if such a classification can be developed.

    Those who learn best in one way, are taught together; and those who learn better in another way, are also taught together. Learning methods that complement each other can be combined, but I’m sure there are some students that would learn better left alone, and others who would learn better in a more group-based environment.
    That said, learning about others is key to developing a child (I would think), so there should be times when students of one learning type gather with another, and such…
    --------------
    --------------
    Teacher quality/Teacher unions:

    • Poor quality teachers need to be removed from the teacher pool permanently.
    • Blacklist em’, if a method to do so can be developed without being abused too much.
    • Teachers unions should, at most, be organized at the state level, and I would far prefer at the county/parish level.
    • Loose coalitions that have, like, a newsletter they send around with teaching tips and developments in the field, can be allowed at a multi-state or national/international level.
    • They can temporarily band together to support a federal education bill or whatnot that they agree with, but it should be voluntary, and I can see one state’s teacher unions agreeing and another’s disagreeing.
    --------------
    --------------
    School boards:

    Need to be reorganized.

    Some ideas:
    • Must include a teacher/former teacher as one member.
    • Must include a parent of a currently enrolled child or very recently graduated child as a member. Obviously, the potential for favoritism exists, but I think the benefit of a connection to the parents of current students is necessary.
    • Must include a junior/senior student, perhaps class president? Currently, I believe the class president bit is sort of like this, but they cannot be a voting member of the school board.
    • Parent cannot be related to student member.
    • Must include a number of professional education experts, qualifications as determined by the school board in each county, with a more general requirement level determined at the state and federal levels. Number of education experts must be less than the majority, I think. But I’m not well versed in this area, by any means, having been home-schooled.
    --------------
    --------------
    Well, I’m sure a few more ideas are bouncing around in my crazy mind, but I’ve probably passed WOT status already, so…
    Last edited by The Mark; 01-17-11 at 09:20 PM.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  5. #65
    Sporadic insanity normal.


    The Mark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    19,736

    Re: Which of these things would improve education in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    Well, the problem with online education is socializing children. Children need to understand how to function with other people. They need to learn how to "play nice" as well as deal with "other bad kids." They aren't going to be kids forever, after all, and they aren't always going to have a teacher or a mommy and daddy to look out for them.

    Which means they need to learn how to make friends with others so they can all look out for each other. Kids also need to be socialized for teamwork functions. And by that, I don't mean projects where individual kids do different components of the same project - I mean where they all work together on every component of the same project. That type of socialization will help them tremendously when they grow up and have to be a part of team when they get a job.

    I definitely think that online education can be a supplement for school - I have been able to learn more on my own via Wikipedia than I ever could using textbooks and teachers at my high school. But there are many types of education, and social education is just as important as academic or technical education.
    This making friends bit.

    It's important, I agree, but not overly so.

    I was homeschooled through highschool, and had little peer-interaction outside the homeschooling community in my area.

    I received a crash-course in some types of interactions when I tried to go to college.

    I received further training when I got my first jobs and such.

    However, I think all of those types of things happen to the majority of us, whether we go to public school or are home-schooled, or something in-between.

    The key, IMO, is to prepare the student as best you can, but much of the adaptation to different environments and interactions must be learnt on the fly.

    Or, “the hard way”.

    I dunno…
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  6. #66
    Cheese
    Aunt Spiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Sasnakra
    Last Seen
    09-10-16 @ 06:10 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,433

    Re: Which of these things would improve education in the United States?

    You know (afterthought) - I signed up for 'social problems' which is a sociology class designed to examine and discuss all sorts of social issues - and find actual solutions in an unbiased, factual and 'they did this - it worked - they now have no more teen pregnancy' type of way.

    The barrier to all sorts of solutions is that people don't WANT to do things.

    There are solutions to countless problems we're dealing with and instead of making it top priority to solve X . . this problem here . . X they banter around and try to please everyone, let their views get muddled over and their goals get melted over the extremists or the lobbyists.

    Instead of doing *what they know will work* - they're playing a game and not actually trying to fix anything.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

  7. #67
    Sage

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Goldsboro,PA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 12:16 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    5,595
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Which of these things would improve education in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    the answer to that is simple; financial incentives. once the parents have skin in the game, they will get involved.
    Money in place of love and disipline........works every time!

  8. #68
    Sage
    Bodhisattva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    New Zealand
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:17 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    63,861

    Re: Which of these things would improve education in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Is it not failing when students who have no intention of learning, who disrupt every single moment of time in the classroom, are kept in the schools because the schools are paid by attendance?
    No that is societal and parental failures...

    Is it not failing when students are promoted when they can't even read?

    Is it not failing when students can't even speak ENGLISH....using ebonics slang instead of proper grammar...and STILL they are promoted?
    That is not the system, that is politics. The system can and would educate students if the teachers were left alone to teach, and hold students back as needed. Admins are pressured, and that sucks. That is part of the system, but it is reacting to political and monetary pressures... not the curriculum or the teachers or the behaviour standards. It is like there are two systems. One that runs the money and politics and the one that runs the students and knowledge. Is one failing? Perhaps, but that is the political side, if anything.

    Is it not failing when inner city girls' main objective in life is to get pregnant and get on the dole?
    Nope, again, that is entirely a societal and parental failure... Seriously. How could you even say this? How is it the schools/education systems fault that a girl wants to get pregnant? Or do drugs? Or shoot somebody? Seriously... where do you think that the responsiblity really lies... in the school or in the individual or culture that promotes said behaviour?

    It's failing all right. But nobody cares -- especially about those inner city kids whose only option, when they don't graduate, is to pimp themselves, pimp others or sell dope
    Nope, they have every opportunity to embrace education and gain from it. They CHOOSE not to. Have you taught in the inner city? I have. Have you taught gang youths? I have. Have you met with the parents of these kids and heard what they have to say? I have. If you have some experience in this, let me know, otherwise your opinion is just that... an opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  9. #69
    Sage
    Bodhisattva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    New Zealand
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:17 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    63,861

    Re: Which of these things would improve education in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Interesting study:
    •47% said classes were not interesting (system problem)
    How in the world did kids ever pass and succeed back in the day?

    Todays students have access to the internet, powerpoint, video, movies, CD recordings, newspapers, art supplies, differentiated instruction, improved teaching techniques... etc etc etc. Wasn't present even 100 years ago... but students succeeded!

    •43% missed too many days to catch up (family problem)
    Family problem

    •45% entered high school poorly prepared by their earlier schooling (system problem)
    Do you have any idea how often I hear this... and then when the previous teacher is asked, they covered all the things that the student is complaining about. Most of you bitching have no idea... students will say that they never learned something a month after you teach them and test them. Many other students will roll their eyes at these students, but when battling cell phones and i-pods in class, it is no wonder that they dont remember.

    •69% said they were not motivated to work hard (system problem)

    Two-thirds said they would have tried harder if they'd been motivated (system problem)
    Lacking self interest or general imagination skills. School is not MTV. School is not 400 texts in a day. School is not sports. School is not Facebook or My Space. What the hell is wrong with some of you that blame the school and not the student? What I see is enabling behaviour that is all about being PC and absolving students of personal responsibility, and that is the very problem, a societal one that embraces failure and blames others for it. It is everywhere. Spill coffee in your lap, sue MacDonalds. Drop the toaster in you bathtub while taking a bath... sue the toaster complany. It is so freaking unbelievable and so incredibly disheartening to hear grow adults make such excuses.

    •35% said they were failing (system problem)
    How is a student failing the systems problem? How idiotic is that? Students fail (lose) in education just like they lose sport.

    EVERYBODY IS NOT A WINNER.

    •32% said they left to get a job (family problem)
    Family problem

    •25% left to become parents (family problem)
    Family problem

    •22% left to take care of a relative (family problem)
    Family problem


    Sounds like the real problem is the parents and society that allows students to fail and then blames somebody else for the failure. Pathetic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  10. #70
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Which of these things would improve education in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    How in the world did kids ever pass and succeed back in the day?

    Todays students have access to the internet, powerpoint, video, movies, CD recordings, newspapers, art supplies, differentiated instruction, improved teaching techniques... etc etc etc. Wasn't present even 100 years ago... but students succeeded!



    Family problem



    Do you have any idea how often I hear this... and then when the previous teacher is asked, they covered all the things that the student is complaining about. Most of you bitching have no idea... students will say that they never learned something a month after you teach them and test them. Many other students will roll their eyes at these students, but when battling cell phones and i-pods in class, it is no wonder that they dont remember.



    Lacking self interest or general imagination skills. School is not MTV. School is not 400 texts in a day. School is not sports. School is not Facebook or My Space. What the hell is wrong with some of you that blame the school and not the student? What I see is enabling behaviour that is all about being PC and absolving students of personal responsibility, and that is the very problem, a societal one that embraces failure and blames others for it. It is everywhere. Spill coffee in your lap, sue MacDonalds. Drop the toaster in you bathtub while taking a bath... sue the toaster complany. It is so freaking unbelievable and so incredibly disheartening to hear grow adults make such excuses.



    How is a student failing the systems problem? How idiotic is that? Students fail (lose) in education just like they lose sport.

    EVERYBODY IS NOT A WINNER.



    Family problem



    Family problem



    Family problem


    Sounds like the real problem is the parents and society that allows students to fail and then blames somebody else for the failure. Pathetic.
    Instead of getting so defensive (I'm assuming you're a teacher) perhaps you should actually read those comments from dropouts without the chip on your shoulder and try to think about how those problems can be solved.

    There are some exceptions to this, but I think the people who just throw up their hands and say "Parents need to do a better job" are really using that as an excuse to avoid implementing any solutions that we, as a society, can actually change. It's equivalent to saying "Nothing needs to be changed." There have always been good parents and bad parents, and probably always will be. But society's ability to change that is rather limited. We can, however, do a great deal to change how our students are educated if we are willing to commit to it.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 01-18-11 at 01:05 AM.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

Page 7 of 25 FirstFirst ... 5678917 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •