Which of these things would improve education in the United States?

Albert Di Salvo said:

We will have a first class America when most of the engineering students at the University of California at Berkeley's School of Engineering aren't citizens of the People's Republic of China.

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So we have never had a first class America?

Bigfoot 88 said:

*Better discipline, possibly corporal punishment
*Expansion of online learning
*Teaching incentives

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Teaching incentives = if you're stupid, you're fired.

delink teacher pay from seniority and tie it to performance. get rid of tenure.

increase parent choice

cease social promotion of students

that will help the school system.

but Mellie points out probably the biggest issue; we have to alter our system that has encouraged massive increase in the number of single-parent households.

Viktyr Korimir said:

I don't think it's cliché at all to suggest that moral decline is the primary cause for declines in other, more measurable, qualities of life. It's an anvil that needs to be dropped.

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Moral decline = liberalism

We've told you for years, you but all know better.

haymarket said:

You missed the most important two IF you want to catch up with other nations on international standardized test scores:

1- a national educational curriculum where the entire USA learns the same things from the same books and materials and takes the same tests which measure what is actually learned in ever classroom in America. Until you do that, you are NOT measuring what is actually taught in classrooms or learned in classrooms since we have thousands upon thousands of different school systems devoid of uniformity in curriculum which many other nations have notably Japan.

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I am curious why you think that removing competition will actually encourage better results. In my own opinion it would seem that if schools offered different standards, curriculum, books, materials, etc it would be better. If people are given a choice I would think most would go to the superior schools.

Mellie said:

I'm a teacher. The number one reason that kids are failing is because their homelife STINKS on ice. It's SO frustrating to see a kid who has GREAT potential, but ZERO assistance or positive reinforcement at home. Many kids have to deal with abuse of themselves or family members, neglect, hunger, fear, drugs....whatever it is. How the hell am I supposed to bring a 5th grader who reads on a 1st grade level up to par when he spends the majority of his life worrying about his next meal or if he'll need to defend his mom from some abuser?

I know it sounds cliche, but the breakdown of the home is THE reason our students are failing. All the other reasons pale in comparison.

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Thanks, and I agree wholehearedly.. .
Solution - take the children from the so-called parents, and have the state bring them up, correctly.
With proper supervision, from the people, I think this can be done.
Taxes would increase, of course, on the short term, and we all know who will vote NO, on this socialistic idea..
I even thing this is a crazy idea, but we , and I mean WE, do have a problem...
Anyone have a better idea???

American said:

Moral decline = liberalism

We've told you for years, you but all know better.

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Disagree, strongly.
A Liberal is equally as moral as a conservative, this is logical.
But a liberal is less religious than a con., this too makes sense.
The problem here is caused by hatred and fear, centuries of intolerance and disrespect..

I know its going to sting a little...but...

Promote personal and family responsibility.

Kick the little ****s out of school that disrupt the education process.

Higher standards for educators (with commensurate pay).

Promote a curriculum that is focused on education. Leave the namby pamby crap out of the school system. You go to school to LEARN. Or you dont go to school.

Mirror certain aspects of Englands education system. You qualify, you move forward. You dont, you are done.

Create a better and more effective GED and trade program.

Revamp the national industrial base so kids have JOBS/CAREERS to work towards.

I think the foremost thing that could improve the education system would be investment. I graduated 3 years ago, and I think the only computers my school had were mac's in the library. In todays world, there are millions of careers out their that primarily use computers. Even if you don't use one, that is how you can get your foot in the door. Most office jobs like interns work exclusively on a computer until they can move farther up in the company. Public schools are behind when it comes to teaching students new technologies. Also, I think there should be more investment in things like the school library,textbooks, and other important materials.

Kal'Stang said:

Lots of things are needed to improve our education system. Parent involvement is of course a good one like Cephus says. But more than that is needed.

Teacher incentives such as basing their pay on their students average GPA would be helpful. For example if the average GPA of a teachers whole class is 2.0 then that teacher should probably not even be allowed to teach. But if the average GPA of the class is 4.0 then that teacher should be making more than the average teacher.

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I like your first statement but as for your plan for merit pay, how do you deal with the teachers whose students good grades because the teacher doesn't teach anything? Also do you compare the teacher teaching basic math with the teacher teaching trig? What if one teacher has serious students and the other teacher has students who are not motivated to learn and cause many discipline problems?

Kal'Stang said:

Stricter rules when it comes to students. Right now the high school in my area does not enforce school attendance. Things like that need to change. Also enforcement of rules is a must.

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I surprised these schools can do that. Most states fund schools at least partly by attendance. As for rule enforcement, the biggest obstacle to that is often the parents. They fight tooth and nail to keep their child from experiencing any consequences due to bad behavior.

Kal'Stang said:

Instead of just punishing kids for when they do bad we need to zero in on why they are doing bad and address the problem.

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A good teacher does this but there is often little time to do so.

Kal'Stang said:

More emphasis on scholastics - less emphasis on sports. While sports are needed no one should get a sports grant. Such things only promote the old style of making the nerds do the jocks homework or cheating, or both.

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I completely agree with this.

Kal'Stang said:

Less union involvement. Unions are largely useless for what they were originally intended for in today's world. Now adays they're nothing more than a bunch of thugs that imo is part of the reason that companies are going overseas.

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Teachers' unions are not as involved as most people think. Every teacher is not in a union. When the union works to protect teachers who are not treated fairly they are worthwhile. Sadly, this doesn't seem to be the primary focus all the time.

Kal'Stang said:

Less time off for frivolous holidays. Such as MLK day. Yes the guy was great. No denying that. But I'm pretty sure that MLK would be disgusted with kids today demanding to have a school day off to "supposedly" celebrate his achievements. Every kid knows that is just bunk and they just want to not go to school.

No more days off for "teacher inhouse day" or whatever the hell it is called now adays. In my day they use to just call it teacher meetings. If the teachers need to learn something new due to policy changes then they would do that on the weekends or over the summer...not in the middle of the week.

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I agree that students need more time in the classroom but they also need breaks. Teachers also need time to work together and to get further training. These days off are not lost class time. Schools are required to provide a certain number of days and hours of class time. That's why they have to make up snow days. They days off are scheduled whether for a holiday or teacher in-service are accommodated in the schedule. The holidays and breaks are also not paid vacation days for the teacher.

Kal'Stang said:

Smaller classes would help as the teachers are able to devote more time to individual students. There's a reason that the Sylvan Learning Center helps kids so much...and it's not because they have huge classes.

There are of course other things but this would be a good start.

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I completely agree that smaller class sizes would be great but this costs money that people seem unwilling to spend.

Since poor people seem to have such low interest in their children, why not prohibit them from having any?

You could also do away with social support for old people. If old people had to rely on their kids for support in their old age, they would be more interested in their offspring becoming productive citizens.

.

drz-400 said:

I am curious why you think that removing competition will actually encourage better results.

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haymarket was a teachers union rep. the disconnect here is that you are assuming he means better results for the students.

Kandahar said:

There are lots of proposals for education reform in the US, not all of which can work together. What do you think are the most important things that can be done to improve education?

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You don't have one thing! I can vote for.

Vouchers.

haymarket said:

You missed the most important two IF you want to catch up with other nations on international standardized test scores:

1- a national educational curriculum where the entire USA learns the same things from the same books and materials and takes the same tests which measure what is actually learned in ever classroom in America. Until you do that, you are NOT measuring what is actually taught in classrooms or learned in classrooms since we have thousands upon thousands of different school systems devoid of uniformity in curriculum which many other nations have notably Japan.

2- American education is a factory system where each raw material progresses down an assembly line at the same pace. That must be done away with. Teach everyone the concept of one plus one is two. Those that master it move on. Those who do not go to another teacher for another approach until they do master it before moving on. Do that with everything you teach and some kids will graduate in eight year, some in twelve years, and some in even longer periods of time. It will cost Xdollars to educate some, 1.5Xdollars to educate others and 3X dollars to educate some.

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Excellent ideas, right now, I think the Conservatives should stay the h*l*l*l away from education.

Okay, I mentioned the number one problem starts at home....now for a secondary problem....

You can spend all the money in the world and talk to teachers until you're blue in the face about how to teach, discipline, change.... (*gasp!*....not CHANGE!!!), but you'll NEVER reach some of those teachers who don't give a flip. I have been to conferences where teachers will sit in the back row talking the whole time, texting, grading papers, KNITTING...anything but listening. I have been in charge of leading a group of teachers in learning more about teaching reading. Most were attentive and respectful....some rolled their eyes, talked to their neighbors, doodled, etc. It is VERY difficult to get teachers who are set in their ways to change.

Teachers like this need to be FIRED. If you refuse to grow in your profession and learn new things, why are you there? The teacher I worked under for student teaching took me to the side and said this to me: "Don't let anyone tell you this is a calling. It's not a calling...it's just a paycheck." I was like..... :shock: :doh :sigh: That woman SHOULD NOT be a teacher (and she still is). Why is she? Because the unions protect teachers like her. Why on earth would anyone support an organization that helps BAD teachers STAY in their job?? :shock:

There needs to be a MASSIVE smackdown on bad teachers. If you aren't up for the job, you're out. We're talking about our KIDS here. Good Lord. Protect the KIDS, not the bad teachers.

:soap

haymarket said:

You missed the most important two IF you want to catch up with other nations on international standardized test scores:

1- a national educational curriculum where the entire USA learns the same things from the same books and materials and takes the same tests which measure what is actually learned in ever classroom in America. Until you do that, you are NOT measuring what is actually taught in classrooms or learned in classrooms since we have thousands upon thousands of different school systems devoid of uniformity in curriculum which many other nations have notably Japan.

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Why is this a solution? This is just another diversion by teachers' unions, a la Haymarket. Others come up with incentives, vouchers, focus on family, etc., etc. A former union rep comes up with let's spend years implementing uniformity in curriculum. Wow. Wonder how many jobs THAT study'd conger up.

2- American education is a factory system where each raw material progresses down an assembly line at the same pace. That must be done away with. Teach everyone the concept of one plus one is two. Those that master it move on. Those who do not go to another teacher for another approach until they do master it before moving on. Do that with everything you teach and some kids will graduate in eight year, some in twelve years, and some in even longer periods of time. It will cost Xdollars to educate some, 1.5Xdollars to educate others and 3X dollars to educate some.

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More jobs! Love it.

Subjective brag: My niece is a senior in high school. Last year, Texas Christian showed up with other colleges to recruit students. Monica talked to the TSU rep and asked, "How can I get a meaningful scholarship at TCU?" The rep told her the story of a student that year who got a $100K scholarship...had a 32 on her SAT...lots of community volunteer experience...killer essays...part-time job in a leadership role. Monica had gotten a 31 on her SAT. She retook and got a 32. She began volunteering in her hometown...drafted essays over and over again...she already had a part-time job in a leadership role as a soccer ref (having won awards for her participation). She applied to TSU last spring. She got a full ride $130K scholarship.

Aside from bragging ;-) what does this tell us? Well, where did her motivation come from? Her parents. Lots of positive reinforcement. A solid belief in the value of a good education. Parental involvement in the school lives of their children. The list could go on. But the moral is, if parents don't give a damn, neither will their children.

MaggieD said:

Subjective brag: My niece is a senior in high school. Last year, Texas Christian showed up with other colleges to recruit students. Monica talked to the TSU rep and asked, "How can I get a meaningful scholarship at TCU?" The rep told her the story of a student that year who got a $100K scholarship...had a 32 on her SAT...lots of community volunteer experience...killer essays...part-time job in a leadership role. Monica had gotten a 31 on her SAT. She retook and got a 32. She began volunteering in her hometown...drafted essays over and over again...she already had a part-time job in a leadership role as a soccer ref (having won awards for her participation). She applied to TSU last spring. She got a full ride $130K scholarship.

Aside from bragging ;-) what does this tell us? Well, where did her motivation come from? Her parents. Lots of positive reinforcement. A solid belief in the value of a good education. Parental involvement in the school lives of their children. The list could go on. But the moral is, if parents don't give a damn, neither will their children.

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What a great story! And your last sentence is SO right.

earthworm said:

Thanks, and I agree wholehearedly.. .
Solution - take the children from the so-called parents, and have the state bring them up, correctly.
With proper supervision, from the people, I think this can be done.
Taxes would increase, of course, on the short term, and we all know who will vote NO, on this socialistic idea..
I even thing this is a crazy idea, but we , and I mean WE, do have a problem...
Anyone have a better idea???

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You're right... this idea is crazy! Parents who don't help their kids in school have their children removed from them??? Not to mention that kids in foster homes and/or being raised by the state would surely not receive any better attention. SO many issues with this 'solution'. (and of course, the primary reason being: How dare the government decide such a thing in my personal life! Sure, I think parents need to be more involved - (maybe a tax-break to parents with students who perform better in school?) but to take children from parents due to grades is just absurd)


The obvious solution, which wasn't included in the poll, is to privatize the school system. Let them compete among each other. Let their grade results be their selling point. Open it up to capitalism.

ksu_aviator said:

You should see the performance of home school coops in Texas. Few of the parents have teaching certificates, yet their kids out perform all other schools. Why? Parents are heavily involved, the classes are small and everyone is accountable. That's why I would trend away from the large, prison like schools, and towards very small schools with less than 20 students per grade. It works. It works very well.

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The problem with most home schools is that students are not required to be tested using the same tests as regular public high school students. The kids that usually take the tests are the ones who plan to head off to college, the ones who you'd expect to have a higher degree of learning anyhow. There are tons of kids who may not be learning a damn thing, but who never get tested and therefore the statistics are seriously skewed.

cpwill said:

haymarket was a teachers union rep. the disconnect here is that you are assuming he means better results for the students.

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Actually my actual job was a teacher of children. A small part of my day was acting as the union rep for the teachers in my building. 1/6th to be precise if you are keeping count of such thing.

And much of my interaction with the administration was advocating for better school programs which would help the students and the teachers together. I always viewed it as a familysituation where we all rise or fall together.

from Maggie D

Why is this a solution? This is just another diversion by teachers' unions, a la Haymarket. Others come up with incentives, vouchers, focus on family, etc., etc. A former union rep comes up with let's spend years implementing uniformity in curriculum. Wow. Wonder how many jobs THAT study'd conger up.

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If you profess to know anything about the actual system of education in America you will know that
1- there is no single American system of education
2- there are tens of thousands of different local systems of education
3- their quality varies widely and significantly
4- nations with a national curriculum like Japan provide a much more accurate measurement of what students learn on the standardized tests because
5- the curriculum in those nations is perfectly dovetailed into the material on the standardized test
6- in America we are frequently testing children on material they never covered in a classroom

And about the jobs part of your comment.... actually a national curriculum would SAVE the taxpayers lots of money because it would eliminate duplication of the same jobs now being done in tens ofthousands of different school systems in the field of curriculum development, testing and other areas.

haymarket said:

If you profess to know anything about the actual system of education in America you will know that
1- there is no single American system of education
2- there are tens of thousands of different local systems of education
3- their quality varies widely and significantly
4- nations with a national curriculum like Japan provide a much more accurate measurement of what students learn on the standardized tests because
5- the curriculum in those nations is perfectly dovetailed into the material on the standardized test
6- in America we are frequently testing children on material they never covered in a classroom

And about the jobs part of your comment.... actually a national curriculum would SAVE the taxpayers lots of money because it would eliminate duplication of the same jobs now being done in tens ofthousands of different school systems in the field of curriculum development, testing and other areas.

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One third of all high schoolers don't graduate. Appalling....I thought it was more of an inner-city problem, but this stat is from PEW and is nationwide. http://www.pew-partnership.org/pdf/dropout_overview.pdf And, of course, this doesn't mean that the 2/3 got even a marginal education...

You will never convince me that the very jakes who created a failing educational system in our country will be the ones to solve it. I believed that too long vis a vis the Congress of the United States of America.

MaggieD said:

One third of all high schoolers don't graduate. Appalling....I thought it was more of an inner-city problem, but this stat is from PEW and is nationwide. http://www.pew-partnership.org/pdf/dropout_overview.pdf And, of course, this doesn't mean that the 2/3 got even a marginal education...

You will never convince me that the very jakes who created a failing educational system in our country will be the ones to solve it. I believed that too long vis a vis the Congress of the United States of America.

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What makes you think that if 1/3 do not graduate, that is not the way it should be? What makes you think that an additional 1/3 can graduate in an assembly line system that often bears no relationship to what is needed to truly educate children? What makes you think that it was any different at any other time in our history?

Kandahar said:

There are lots of proposals for education reform in the US, not all of which can work together. What do you think are the most important things that can be done to improve education?

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None of those.

Make parents more involved and responsible for student achievement.
Deport the millions of illegal immigrants with parents that only have a first grade Mexican education.
Actually force students who Fail a grade, stay behind.
Teachers mark accordingly and stop with Administration's money over quality threats.
Force mandatory English in schools and mandate speakers of other languages start at year one reading level and not toss them into their age grade level.

There are many things that will improve public education, and most pf them have nothing to do with the "politics".