View Poll Results: Which of these things would improve education in the US?

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  • Longer school days

    14 16.47%
  • Longer school years

    31 36.47%
  • Better pay for teachers

    29 34.12%
  • More charter schools

    27 31.76%
  • More public vouchers for private schools

    34 40.00%
  • Weakening teachers' unions

    42 49.41%
  • More funding

    31 36.47%
  • Reallocation of funding (e.g. on a state level instead of on a district level)

    27 31.76%
  • Firing teachers who fail to perform to the standards the school board expects

    50 58.82%
  • More online education, replacing some brick-and-mortar schools

    17 20.00%
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Thread: Which of these things would improve education in the United States?

  1. #181
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    Re: Which of these things would improve education in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Unions ARE necessary unless you want the poor working conditions of the Industrial Revolution to happen again...
    Oh give me a freaking break. 89% of Americans are not members of unions, yet no one lives in those kind of conditions. If you hadn't noticed, the US economy has developed a bit in the last 100 years. No one is going to exploit you, least of all a government employer that doesn't give a **** about making money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva
    I think that you actually want them to have less power and be smaller and more regulated.
    I can't speak for American, but *I* sure as hell want them to have less power and be more regulated.

    Unions (especially public unions) are a disgusting affront to the way an economy should operate in this day and age. They force the taxpayers to overpay for public services, and advocate policies that run the country into the ground so that their members can prosper. I am ashamed that the Democratic Party, of which I am a member, has such a dysfunctional relationship with these special interest groups.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 02-03-11 at 06:22 PM.
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  2. #182
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    Re: Which of these things would improve education in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Those options are nice for wealthy yuppies, but not always possible for poor minorities living in inner cities and attending failing schools.
    Home school can be done by less wealthy folks. But that is besides the point. No one has the right to everything possible. Public school is the option for those who can't do anything else. So, work to make it better.


    In many cities/states, the unions can and will fight tooth and nail against every dismissal of every teacher, no matter how much documentation there is or how valid the reason for the termination. It was like that here in DC prior to Michelle Rhee's tenure. It's still nearly impossible in New York City, despite having a progressive superintendent dedicated to education reform.
    So, that's their role. But, a process is in place inwhich to one can be dismissed. All anyone has to do is follow the process. Like any other union, it is their job to fight for the teacher. Accept it. But don't lose sight of the fact that the process still exists to get rid of poor teachers.

    Let me throw something else in here if I may as well. Teachers are not in abundance. There are places that simply can't get teachers. In some cases you might serve students betteer to work to improve the teacher than to seek dismissal. there are process for that as well.

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  3. #183
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    Re: Which of these things would improve education in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    There are lots of proposals for education reform in the US, not all of which can work together. What do you think are the most important things that can be done to improve education?
    In terms of teacher pay, I happen to believe (generally speaking) that public school teachers are overpaid and private school teachers are adequately and/or underpaid. This is purely a generalization.

    I do get tired of people (like the one acceptance speaker at the Golden Globes) promoting the greatness of public school teachers without even considering the private school teachers. If you're a private school teacher, you're often paid a fraction of the salary of a public teacher while maintaining a heavier workload and accountability factor. Teaching is a noble profession, but private school teachers are far more noble in their endeavors.

  4. #184
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    Re: Which of these things would improve education in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    In terms of teacher pay, I happen to believe (generally speaking) that public school teachers are overpaid and private school teachers are adequately and/or underpaid. This is purely a generalization.

    I do get tired of people (like the one acceptance speaker at the Golden Globes) promoting the greatness of public school teachers without even considering the private school teachers. If you're a private school teacher, you're often paid a fraction of the salary of a public teacher while maintaining a heavier workload and accountability factor. Teaching is a noble profession, but private school teachers are far more noble in their endeavors.
    That too depends on the school, but yes, there are a lot of under paid private school teachers. However, while pay is a cncern, it is not the top issue among teachers. I believe that respect would rate higher.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  5. #185
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    Re: Which of these things would improve education in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Why don't you all bestow your insight and wisdom upon us Oh Learned One?
    Exactly, you can't even provide a counter arguement.
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  6. #186
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    Re: Which of these things would improve education in the United States?

    We don't need to weaken Unions we need to eliminate them all together and make employment 100% dependent on results.

    The old saying the those who do and those who can't teach, has its basis in fact.

    There are some wonderful teachers out there but they are hard to find these days.

    Because of Unions and Liberals, in the last 30 years California has gone from #1 in Education to #49 just ahead of Mississippi.

  7. #187
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    Re: Which of these things would improve education in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    We don't need to weaken Unions we need to eliminate them all together and make employment 100% dependent on results.

    The old saying the those who do and those who can't teach, has its basis in fact.

    There are some wonderful teachers out there but they are hard to find these days.

    Because of Unions and Liberals, in the last 30 years California has gone from #1 in Education to #49 just ahead of Mississippi.
    Oh lord where to begin.

    Aince when has employment ever been completely dependent on results? And what would be the results? And isn't Mississippi a conservative state?


    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  8. #188
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    Re: Which of these things would improve education in the United States?

    Why is it that certain things evoke a kind of Pavlovian response in so many people? Mention the word "union", and they immediately think "evil".

    Personally, I wouldn't enter the door of the modern classroom without the protection of a union, and I'll tell you why: All it takes is one little tart to point her finger and say, "he touched me", and your career and any savings you might have are immediately in jeopardy. the same if a student falls over his own feet and cracks his head. You don't have to have done more than piss off a student or parent, and you can be in court fighting for your credential and your freedom. Now, you do have the option of an overworked public defender, of course, if you're brave enough. You aren't going to get much support from the school, as the officials thereof are more interested in their own skins. You do have the option of spending a few tens of thousands on your own defense. Or, you can get the backing of the union, and get a real defense without draining your savings.

    But, then, you have to belong to one of those evil unions.
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  9. #189
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    Re: Which of these things would improve education in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Oh give me a freaking break. 89% of Americans are not members of unions, yet no one lives in those kind of conditions. If you hadn't noticed, the US economy has developed a bit in the last 100 years. No one is going to exploit you, least of all a government employer that doesn't give a **** about making money.



    I can't speak for American, but *I* sure as hell want them to have less power and be more regulated.

    Unions (especially public unions) are a disgusting affront to the way an economy should operate in this day and age. They force the taxpayers to overpay for public services, and advocate policies that run the country into the ground so that their members can prosper. I am ashamed that the Democratic Party, of which I am a member, has such a dysfunctional relationship with these special interest groups.
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  10. #190
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    Re: Which of these things would improve education in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Oh give me a freaking break. 89% of Americans are not members of unions, yet no one lives in those kind of conditions. If you hadn't noticed, the US economy has developed a bit in the last 100 years. No one is going to exploit you, least of all a government employer that doesn't give a **** about making money.
    If you don't think a teacher can be exploited you have never been a non-tenured teacher. I've seen good teachers fired because they ticked off the wrong school board member. A non-tenured teacher can be fired for any reason(except race, religion, or gender) with no warning and no documentation of a problem. I've seen teachers who got great evaluations from the principal(their direct supervisor who sees them on a daily basis) only to be fired by the school board. I'm not a member of a union but I'm glad someone is out there trying to make sure teachers are treated fairly.
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