View Poll Results: Which of these things would improve education in the US?

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  • Longer school days

    14 16.47%
  • Longer school years

    31 36.47%
  • Better pay for teachers

    29 34.12%
  • More charter schools

    27 31.76%
  • More public vouchers for private schools

    34 40.00%
  • Weakening teachers' unions

    42 49.41%
  • More funding

    31 36.47%
  • Reallocation of funding (e.g. on a state level instead of on a district level)

    27 31.76%
  • Firing teachers who fail to perform to the standards the school board expects

    50 58.82%
  • More online education, replacing some brick-and-mortar schools

    17 20.00%
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Thread: Which of these things would improve education in the United States?

  1. #121
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    Re: Which of these things would improve education in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    I believe if you read the rest of my post, you will see that I already answered your question, but let me ask you one in return:
    Where?

    What nation of the world has a totally private education system, and an educated populace?
    Where is there actually a totally private education system?

  2. #122
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    Re: Which of these things would improve education in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z View Post
    You didn't qualify your earlier statement that education was a "big joke." I've been in education 17 years and I see more good than bad. Of course there are issues but those are most often caused by people who know nothing about education making the decisions.
    I do consider a majority of public education a joke. I seen many of my classmates to this day that are near the intelligent level of a rock. I know this is not the school/teachers entirely, but the system needs to have some pretty heavy changes associated to it.

  3. #123
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    Re: Which of these things would improve education in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by DontDoIt View Post
    I do consider a majority of public education a joke. I seen many of my classmates to this day that are near the intelligent level of a rock. I know this is not the school/teachers entirely, but the system needs to have some pretty heavy changes associated to it.
    Other than observing fellow former classmates whose basic intelligence may indeed have nothing to do with the schools they attended, what do you base your opinion on exactly?
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  4. #124
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    Re: Which of these things would improve education in the United States?

    Given the state of education in our country, it's not too surprising that the best answer isn't an option in the poll. We need to change our curriculum from top to bottom, rolling back the liberal reforms of the 1920s forward. Elementary schools should teach:

    Basic mathematics through pre-algebra
    Elementary Greek (Attic, and perhaps Koine)
    Elementary Latin (Ancient and Medieval)
    English and one other foreign language, such as French or German
    Athletics
    Basic composition and critical thinking (identifying premises and conclusions, main ideas, telling the difference between an argument and an explanation, knowing the difference between inductive and deductive reasoning, some knowledge of the scientific method, etc.)

    No need to teach Science, Philosophy, Classics, or Literature. Bottom line at this level: give students the building blocks.

    Middle and High School should teach (emphasized in this order):

    1) The Classics (along with continued instruction in either Latin or Greek, with opportunity for students to study both)
    2) Philosophy and Logic
    3) Mathematics
    4) Athletics
    5) History
    6) Science
    7) Other literature (Shakespeare, Dante, Tolstoy, Rumi, The Grail Romances, etc.--less emphasis on American authors though some should be taught)

    We should add back in what those subjects are really about. Currently, we don't allow much in the way of reference to religion, sex, politics, or drugs in the literature we teach. We don't teach Philosophy because many of the positions with which it is important to be familiar have clear theological, religious, and ethical implications. This sort of censorship was and has been very foolish--we've taken out of the curriculum three-fourths of what it means to be human and what education is about.

    Bottom line at this level: show students how to build a mind and why it is important to do so. Show how each subject relates to the others. To graduate high school, students ought to demonstrate basic familiarity with the the main body of each subject and relate it to the others. A high school graduate ought to know, for instance, that both language and mathematics are related in that they are systems of symbols. They ought to be able to discuss intelligently the basic positions about how those systems relate to the world. They ought to be able to place ideas in the context of history. A high school graduate ought to be able to solve complex mathematical problems involving trigonometry and differential calculus. A high school graduate ought to be able to do simple formal proofs in logic. A high school graduate ought to have read and mastered some of the great works of literature.

    Proficiency in either Latin or Greek ought to be required for admittance to College (both for elite universities), as well as basic thinking skills illustrated above, and proficiency in mathematics and some form of athletics (with obvious, common-sense exceptions in the case of people who are handicapped--though anyone fit for College ought to be able to learn some competitive game, like chess).

    College curricula ought to require at least 9 hours of philosophy (3 hours of logic, 3 hours survey of contemporary philosophy, 3 hours elective) with a 4.0 required in that coursework. A College graduate ought to be fluent in at least three languages (English, Latin or Greek, and one other language, ancient or modern). A College graduate ought to have completed at least 3 hours each in trigonometry and calculus, with at least a 3.5 required in that coursework. A graduate ought to be conversant with the major discoveries of science, and be able to intelligently discuss their relationship to our body of knowledge as a whole. That would probably also take at least 9 hours of coursework, and a 3.5 in that coursework. A graduate ought to have translated at least one of the major Classical works in either Latin or Greek (i.e. one of Plato's dialogues, a few of the books of Herodotus' Historia, at least a few books of Virgil's Anaeid, etc.).

    The only thing I'd change in Graduate and Post Graduate studies as they currently stand is that someone seeking an advanced degree in Humanities, Literature, Philosophy, or related fields should be required to complete at least an undergraduate minor in either physics or biology. Someone seeking an advanced degree in one of the Sciences should likewise be required to complete at least an undergraduate minor in a major area of the Humanities (philosophy, literature, religious studies, etc.).
    Last edited by ashurbanipal; 02-02-11 at 12:18 PM.

  5. #125
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    Re: Which of these things would improve education in the United States?

    I believe the following would improvement the school system

    1. Getting rid of the teachers union
    2. Eliminating the federal department of education
    3. Returning education to the states
    4. Eliminate the red tape in order start private/charter/magnet schools
    5. Merit pay
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  6. #126
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    Re: Which of these things would improve education in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by chevydriver1123 View Post
    I believe the following would improvement the school system

    1. Getting rid of the teachers union
    2. Eliminating the federal department of education
    3. Returning education to the states
    4. Eliminate the red tape in order start private/charter/magnet schools
    5. Merit pay
    What exactly is your expertise in each of these areas that have given you the beliefs that you have that they should be eliminated?
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    Re: Which of these things would improve education in the United States?

    Number one os break the unions, along with public sector unions.

  8. #128
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    Re: Which of these things would improve education in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Gein View Post
    Number one os break the unions, along with public sector unions.
    And your factual reasons related to educational performance for this belief would be what exactly?
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  9. #129
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    Re: Which of these things would improve education in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by DontDoIt View Post
    More private schools, less teacher unions and pensions. Anyone who has recently been in a public education system knows how big of a joke it really is. With all these programs implemented on schools that are not meeting education standards, a majority of them do nothing more than merely making it easier toward getting a degree without the adequate knowledge.
    Private schools benefit from being selective. Those who can afford a private school more often have more involved parents. There is little special about private schools other than their student population. If private schools had the general population, they would likely have the same problems public schools have. And if private schools depended on money based ontest scores, with a general population, they would do just what public schools are doing.

    Also, I see some really have problems with the teacher's union. I don't belong to any union, and while I might concede any organization, including a union, is not likely perfect, doing away with the union would more likely have us trade one problem for another. And in the larger view, unions are comparitively a small problem.

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    Re: Which of these things would improve education in the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    And your factual reasons related to educational performance for this belief would be what exactly?
    Unions do not serve students, the exist for the sole purpose of their own subsistence, growing like a malignant fetid tumor on the backs of children.

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