View Poll Results: Which is likely to to happen first for same sex couples: marriages or civil unions?

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  • Marriage

    13 27.08%
  • Civil unions for same sex couples

    30 62.50%
  • Civil unions for everyone

    2 4.17%
  • Other

    3 6.25%
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Thread: Which is most likely to happen: same sex marriages or civil unions?

  1. #31
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    Re: Which is most likely to happen: same sex marriages or civil unions?

    I read that twice and i admit it's either over my head, or nonsense.

    In any case, thanks for the reply. We'll see what the supremes say.

  2. #32
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    Re: Which is most likely to happen: same sex marriages or civil unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyDan View Post
    I read that twice and i admit it's either over my head, or nonsense.

    In any case, thanks for the reply. We'll see what the supremes say.
    Allow me to clarify a couple of things that you be missing about this debate.

    First, the SCOTUS case that struck down anti-interracial marriage laws was Loving v Virginia in 1967. It involved a white man/black woman couple living in Virginia who were arrested for living together after they were married in another state and moved to Virginia. They fought the law to the SCOTUS and this case ended up striking down all state laws against interracial marriages as unconstitutional.

    Loving v. Virginia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Second, the SCOTUS judges cases that bring laws that may be against Equal Protection based on levels of scrutiny. Which basically means that some things are judged to be more important to not be discriminated against than other things.

    Levels of Scrutiny Under the Equal Protection Clause

    All of this said, the fact is that there really hasn't been any argument established as to why the state has any interest in not allowing a man to marry another man or a woman to marry a woman, while allowing a man to marry a woman and vice versa. The prevailing (false) claim is that marriage is for children. However, this is easily debated by pointing to how marriage laws apply to opposite sex couples, particularly those who can't or do not want to have children. And the government has failed to explain adequately why it is important to promote marriage only between opposite sex couples, whether they have children or not, without showing why homosexual couples who are raising children, either their own or adopted, all over the country are not allowed to provide the same such stability for their children.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  3. #33
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    Re: Which is most likely to happen: same sex marriages or civil unions?

    That I got. Thanks. Let me think on it.

  4. #34
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    Re: Which is most likely to happen: same sex marriages or civil unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I am trying to get a realistic view on what people believe will most likely happen.

    The argument goes on about if gays should have the right to marry the person that they want to actually marry, legally, and have that marriage recognized in every state.

    But my question is more on what is most likely to happen, civil unions for same sex couples with the exact same or at least most of the same rights/responsibilities/benefits as opposite sex marriage or just same sex marriage? I'm looking for basis on current court cases moving up, judge and Justice views, laws associated with this, positions of those in Congress, the President, the people, and an overall legal standpoint. Not asking if it is right or wrong, just asking what you believe is likely to happen and when you would expect to see it.

    I even want some discussion from those who believe it will never come and/or that there will/might be a federal Constitutional Amendment banning same sex marriage and support for this in Congress.

    Many against same sex marriage are in support of civil unions for same sex couples, with all the legal aspects of marriage, but without the name. I do not believe that this is likely to happen before marriage is simply opened up to same sex couples nationwide, like what happened after Loving v. VA.

    Possible timelines that some might foresee could be interesting as well.
    When all is said and done, as it stands right now, the end result is going to be marriage.

    Those that are religious would throw a huge fit if the federal government were to abolish marriage and replace it with civil unions. Since the huge majority of people in the US are religious that would be very bad for the federal government.

    Those that are gay would never settle for a civil union if marriages were still recognized by the federal government. Even if the civil unions had the exact same pro's/con's as marriage does. For the simple fact that it would still be a form of segregation if they were not allowed to use the term marriage.

    Another reason that would apply to all the religous, athiest, and gay folks is that "marriage" is just too ingrained into our society. You simply cannot cast aside thousands of years of the use of the word. The majority of people just wouldn't allow it.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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  5. #35
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    Re: Which is most likely to happen: same sex marriages or civil unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Allow me to clarify a couple of things that you be missing about this debate.

    First, the SCOTUS case that struck down anti-interracial marriage laws was Loving v Virginia in 1967. It involved a white man/black woman couple living in Virginia who were arrested for living together after they were married in another state and moved to Virginia. They fought the law to the SCOTUS and this case ended up striking down all state laws against interracial marriages as unconstitutional.

    Loving v. Virginia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Second, the SCOTUS judges cases that bring laws that may be against Equal Protection based on levels of scrutiny. Which basically means that some things are judged to be more important to not be discriminated against than other things.

    Levels of Scrutiny Under the Equal Protection Clause

    All of this said, the fact is that there really hasn't been any argument established as to why the state has any interest in not allowing a man to marry another man or a woman to marry a woman, while allowing a man to marry a woman and vice versa. The prevailing (false) claim is that marriage is for children. However, this is easily debated by pointing to how marriage laws apply to opposite sex couples, particularly those who can't or do not want to have children. And the government has failed to explain adequately why it is important to promote marriage only between opposite sex couples, whether they have children or not, without showing why homosexual couples who are raising children, either their own or adopted, all over the country are not allowed to provide the same such stability for their children.
    Couples who can't have children can adopt, and their children have the benefit of a mother who was born a female and knows all about that girly stuff, and a father who was born a male, and knows about manly type stuff. Couples who don't want to have children are free to change their minds, or have a love child without legal problems.

    Why is civil union inferior to marriage?

    While we're at it, why do homosexuals want to marry?

    Equaiity seems to be the goal. Would gay rights activists consider it a victory to outlaw marriage?
    Last edited by LuckyDan; 01-16-11 at 03:49 AM.

  6. #36
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    Re: Which is most likely to happen: same sex marriages or civil unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyDan View Post
    Couples who can't have children can adopt, and their children have the benefit of a mother who was born a female and knows all about that girly stuff, and a faher who was born a male, and knows about manly type stuff. Couples who don't want to have children are free to change their minds, or have a love child without legal problems.

    What is the state interest in allowing homosexual marriage?
    Gay folks don't know "manly" or "girly" things? Did you really just try to use that tired old false arguement?

    Anyways, gays can (or should be able to) adopt and give a loving home also. They can even have kids naturally with a third party involvement. Which btw also answers your question of state interest. Assuming of course that you think that the state interest in marriage is just for families having/taking care of kids.

    Edit note: Oh wait...you haven't been actually posting at the DP for very long. This is going to be fun watching you learn.
    Last edited by Kal'Stang; 01-16-11 at 03:53 AM.
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  7. #37
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    Re: Which is most likely to happen: same sex marriages or civil unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Gay folks don't know "manly" or "girly" things? Did you really just try to use that tired old false arguement?

    Anyways, gays can (or should be able to) adopt and give a loving home also. They can even have kids naturally with a third party involvement. Which btw also answers your question of state interest. Assuming of course that you think that the state interest in marriage is just for families having/taking care of kids.

    Edit note: Oh wait...you haven't been actually posting at the DP for very long. This is going to be fun watching you learn.
    Thanks, teach. I'm especially looking forward to learning how homosexual couples have children "naturally with a third party involvment."

    Tell me.

  8. #38
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    Re: Which is most likely to happen: same sex marriages or civil unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyDan View Post
    Thanks, teach. I'm especially looking forward to learning how homosexual couples have children "naturally with a third party involvment."

    Tell me.
    Ummm....how old are you? Serious question there as most adults knows how kids can happen naturally....
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  9. #39
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    Re: Which is most likely to happen: same sex marriages or civil unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Ummm....how old are you? Serious question there as most adults knows how kids can happen naturally....
    49.

    Still waiting to learn how homosexual couples have kids "naturally with a third party involvement."

  10. #40
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    Re: Which is most likely to happen: same sex marriages or civil unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyDan View Post
    49.

    Still waiting to learn how homosexual couples have kids "naturally with a third party involvement."
    Ok so you know how the birds and the bee's work right? 1 gay guy gets together with 1 woman..with luck 9 months later out pops a kid. Woman gives up rights to kid and gay guys boyfriend adopts kid for legal reasons. Poof. Gay couple now have a kid to call their own.

    Seriously...did that really have to be explained? Do you need me to go into more detail? Because I'm not sure if I'm willing to test the Mods tolerance levels....
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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