View Poll Results: How do you think the Arizona shooter's courtcase should end?

Voters
35. You may not vote on this poll
  • Imprisonment, For Life

    7 20.00%
  • Death Row

    14 40.00%
  • Imprisoned, But Not For Life

    0 0%
  • Mental Institution, For Life

    7 20.00%
  • Mental Institution, Until Rehabilitated

    2 5.71%
  • He should be found innocent / not guilty

    0 0%
  • Other

    5 14.29%
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 46

Thread: How do you think the AZ shooter's courtcase should end?

  1. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    London, England and Dijon, France
    Last Seen
    03-06-11 @ 01:40 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    598

    Re: How do you think the AZ shooter's courtcase should end?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    What?

    Being crazy means you aren't responsible for your actions, because you can't exercise deliberative control of your behavior.

    The gravity of your deeds can't alter whether or not you are crazy.
    Then, with someone as dangerous as that, they've no choice but to lock him up out of fear of him attempting another similar stunt. His actions dictate his life, not his intents. That's true for everyone.

  2. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Last Seen
    01-13-11 @ 10:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    685

    Re: How do you think the AZ shooter's courtcase should end?

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    With the evidence that has been in the news against Loughner if ever there was a case for capital punishment this is one. Enough people saw him do the shooting. Two people at the event captured him and kept him from leaving the scene. They have found a note written by him suggesting he was planning to kill the Congresswoman. There is no doubt in my mind this Loughner did the crime.

    IMO, the trail should be limited to no more than a week. When found guilty the sentance should be death. The second week would be the apeal to the death sentance. This would should be limited to more than 1 day of court time. The sentance should be carried out immediatly after the appeal is turned down. Of course I know this won't happen and hundred of thousands of dollars (maybe millions) will be wasted in court time.
    He's innocent though, for now. Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

  3. #13
    King Of The Dog Pound
    Black Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    South Florida
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    34,531

    Re: How do you think the AZ shooter's courtcase should end?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    What?

    Being crazy means you aren't responsible for your actions, because you can't exercise deliberative control over your behavior.

    The gravity of your deeds can't alter whether or not you are crazy.

    I don't see the point of having complex legal, psychiatric, and moral categories if a person guilt's ultimately derives from how upset people are at him. It's like the categories only exist in case we feel like indulging them, not because it is a matter of ethics or principle.
    Yes and no. He is indeed mentally unstable, but he still knows right from wrong (or so it seems according to reports.) He knew what he was doing was wrong. That is the difference. Just being mentally deficient is not enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  4. #14
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Last Seen
    01-13-11 @ 10:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    685

    Re: How do you think the AZ shooter's courtcase should end?

    I don't think he should be killed, because he's just a young man, and he has his whole life ahead of him (albeit most of that life is now ruined, and he has no one to blame for that but himself).

  5. #15
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    London, England and Dijon, France
    Last Seen
    03-06-11 @ 01:40 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    598

    Re: How do you think the AZ shooter's courtcase should end?

    Quote Originally Posted by Solace View Post
    I don't think he should be killed, because he's just a young man, and he has his whole life ahead of him (albeit most of that life is now ruined, and he has no one to blame for that but himself).
    Not to mention the ghastly moral negligence in utilising the death penalty.

  6. #16
    Cheese
    Aunt Spiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Sasnakra
    Last Seen
    09-10-16 @ 06:10 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,433

    Re: How do you think the AZ shooter's courtcase should end?

    Quote Originally Posted by Solace View Post
    He's innocent though, for now. Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
    Hmm? As if a jury is going to find him not guilty and that he didn't pull the trigger.
    That phrase only applies to cases in which there is the need to gather EVIDENCE to prove guilt/innocence - not when there is no reasonable doubt.
    There is no 'going free' for him - the only thing they can argue is the severity of his punishment. . . there's no question in anyone's mind about his guilt.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

  7. #17
    Sage
    mike2810's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    arizona
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    15,032

    Re: How do you think the AZ shooter's courtcase should end?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    What?

    Being crazy means you aren't responsible for your actions, because you can't exercise deliberative control over your behavior.

    The gravity of your deeds can't alter whether or not you are crazy.

    I don't see the point of having complex legal, psychiatric, and moral categories if a person guilt's ultimately derives from how upset people are at him. It's like the categories only exist in case we feel like indulging them, not because it is a matter of ethics or principle.
    in the early 70's I had a physc prof tell me he did not believe in innocent by reason of insanity, he did believe in guilty but insane. The reason is even the most insane person makes decisions. They may look at the world differently and precieve actions differentyl, but that is not an excuse. Maybe it is time we reduce the complexity of psychiatric catagories.
    "I can explain it to you but, I can't understand it for you"

  8. #18
    Cheese
    Aunt Spiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Sasnakra
    Last Seen
    09-10-16 @ 06:10 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,433

    Re: How do you think the AZ shooter's courtcase should end?

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    in the early 70's I had a physc prof tell me he did not believe in innocent by reason of insanity, he did believe in guilty but insane. The reason is even the most insane person makes decisions. They may look at the world differently and precieve actions differentyl, but that is not an excuse. Maybe it is time we reduce the complexity of psychiatric catagories.
    But actually winning or having a sentence reduced by te insanity defense is extremely difficult and very rare.

    But if we were to make things more depending on understanding HOW the person works and judge within their world we would be adding another spectrum to psychology altogether.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

  9. #19
    Guru
    Morality Games's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Iowa
    Last Seen
    05-24-16 @ 10:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    3,733

    Re: How do you think the AZ shooter's courtcase should end?

    Then, with someone as dangerous as that, they've no choice but to lock him up out of fear of him attempting another similar stunt. His actions dictate his life, not his intents. That's true for everyone.
    In a general sense, I agree. Crazy or not, his actions will have consequence. But punishment and/or rehabilitation is not an algorithmic process. Multiple contingencies from different conditions and varying degrees. The "destiny" the legal system decides for him could be altered several times over the months, years, or decades before it reaches a definitive shape. On the other hand, it might be straightforward.

    Yes and no. He is indeed mentally unstable, but he still knows right from wrong (or so it seems according to reports.) He knew what he was doing was wrong. That is the difference. Just being mentally deficient is not enough.
    I'm not sure of the specifics of his case. He may or may not be crazy, and that will be evaluated during the legal process. My point is that the category of insanity exists for defined legal and moral purposes, which as a matter of principle cannot be altered because of the gravity of an actor's deed.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 01-12-11 at 12:39 AM.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

    St. Benedict

  10. #20
    Sage
    mike2810's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    arizona
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    15,032

    Re: How do you think the AZ shooter's courtcase should end?

    Quote Originally Posted by Solace View Post
    He's innocent though, for now. Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
    Agreed. So give the DA one day to present the evidence, and one day for a defense. Based on what evidence the DA has, don't you agree that this is a pretty cut/dried case?
    His gun, witness seeing him use the gun, caught and held at the scene, notes in his room about wanting to kill the person, etc.
    "I can explain it to you but, I can't understand it for you"

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •