Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

Harry Guerrilla said:

Translation; Nolan is a libertarian, there for my conspiracy theory is true.

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you skipped a few facts that I listed. Go back and read again.

Originally Posted by haymarket

Paul people proudly boast how the right wing tea party emerged from their loins.

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antiderivative replied

Wrong. Republicans hijacked the tea party in an attempt to distance themselves from the horrible Bush administration. While the movement did originate with Paul, it was hijacked.

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You agree with me. thus, I cannot be WRONG. Never tell me I am wrong and then say you agree with my statement. It makes one of us look pretty foolish.

haymarket said:

you skipped a few facts that I listed. Go back and read again.

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No I went over it, so far it's the same repetitive garble from you.

You; "Libertarians made a political graph to differentiate themselves from the right."
Me; "Proof?"
You; "Libertarians made it."

I understand what you're saying, I just haven't seen the proof yet.
So for now, it's conspiracy theory.

Anyone who calls the Nazis far-left is either:

1) Misinformed
2) Trying to insult left-wingers by comparing them to Nazis

JustinS said:

Anyone who calls the Nazis left-wing is either:

1) Misinformed
2) Trying to insult left-wingers by comparing them to Nazis

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when one gets to the extremes-extreme left and extreme right are pretty much the same

lots of mass graves

I agree on this, if you are using left-right in the traditional and not the economic sense.

JustinS said:

I agree on this, if you are using left-right in the traditional and not the economic sense.

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to accomplish leftwing dreams concerning economics lots of dead bodies are gonna happen

JustinS said:

Anyone who calls the Nazis far-left is either:

1) Misinformed
2) Trying to insult left-wingers by comparing them to Nazis

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How about just plain stupid?

TurtleDude said:

to accomplish leftwing dreams concerning economics lots of dead bodies are gonna happen

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It depends on the degree of left-ness. Communism, when implemented, usually will result in mass deaths. This is because communist leaders tend to use authoritarian means to get what they want. Communist thinkers, however, are largely non-violent ideologically.

pbrauer said:

How about just plain stupid?

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Not necessarily. Many people look at the official name - National Socialism - and instantly assume "Hey, the Nazis were socialist, and therefore radical left-wingers!" Others are simply manipulative, though.

I think in terms of quadrants.

Social cons/economic cons are cons.
Social libs/economic libs are libs.
Social cons/Eco libs are populists
Social libs/Eco cons are libertarians

I'd put the nazis in the populist camp, along with their fascism. Libs and cons can be fascists equally, tho I'd say America's current fascist bent rests more with the libs. ("One per center." "Homophobe." Lib terms. And fascist.)

Edit: On second thought, I can't think of a time when cons were fascist. I withdraw that portion.

No, Democrats (if that is what you mean by liberals) are much less authoritarian and economically are slightly more right-wing than fascists.

Both American liberals and American conservatives are far away from fascism. Conservatives are closer in social policies and farther in economic policies, but liberals are closer in economic policies and farther in social policies.

Left or right makes no difference the extremes of both attract persons that desire power over anything else. When they get that power they will become authoritarian. It may be a cliche but power does corrupt.

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This is the wrong kind of question to ask, because the answer is neither. Fascism, of course, is right wing, in that it calls for corporate control of government. Nazism did incorporate Fascism, but on it's own merit, it is not right wing, due to many of it's planks which called for extermination of Jews and the promotion of the Aryan race. These views cannot be considered either right or left wing, as they are exclusive to Nazism itself, and not a part of Fascism, which again, is defined as corporate control of the government. Fascism itself is not necessarily a bad thing, if that is what the people of a nation want. Same with Communism - If the people want it, the people can have it. However, right wing Fascism, and left wing Communism as well, almost always involve Statism, in which the rights of the people are supressed. This is why they are such dirty words in America, where we have been indoctrinated from birth to enjoy the freedoms we have. As Americans, we should consider ourselves lucky that we are not under Fascist or Communist dictatorships, which is why we should hold our Constitution and Bill of Rights as sacred documents, not to be trifled with. For once they are, we begin the long side down the slippery slope that eventually leads to either Fascism, Communism, or in the very worst case, a form of government not that far removed from Nazism. America - Love it. Live it. Defend it from all enemies, both foreign and domestic. Once we lose even part of it, then we have lost everything.

danarhea said:

This is the wrong kind of question to ask, because the answer is neither. Fascism, of course, is right wing, in that it calls for corporate control of government. Nazism did incorporate Fascism, but on it's own merit, it is not right wing, due to many of it's planks which called for extermination of Jews and the promotion of the Aryan race. These views cannot be considered either right or left wing, as they are exclusive to Nazism itself, and not a part of Fascism, which again, is defined as corporate control of the government. Fascism itself is not necessarily a bad thing, if that is what the people of a nation want. Same with Communism - If the people want it, the people can have it. However, right wing Fascism, and left wing Communism as well, almost always involve Statism, in which the rights of the people are supressed. This is why they are such dirty words in America, where we have been indoctrinated from birth to enjoy the freedoms we have. As Americans, we should consider ourselves lucky that we are not under Fascist or Communist dictatorships, which is why we should hold our Constitution and Bill of Rights as sacred documents, not to be trifled with. For once they are, we begin the long side down the slippery slope that eventually leads to either Fascism, Communism, or in the very worst case, a form of government not that far removed from Nazism. America - Love it. Live it. Defend it from all enemies, both foreign and domestic. Once we lose even part of it, then we have lost everything.

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Fascism has nothing to do with business or corporations. It has to do with indoctrination and social engineering, and it needs a state enemy, be that enemy a Jew, or a smoker, or a one-percenter, or a homophobe, or even (more to my point in our present time) a businessman.

At least, that is how I have always understood the term. If I'm wrong I welcome correction.

Harry Guerrilla said:

No I went over it, so far it's the same repetitive garble from you.

You; "Libertarians made a political graph to differentiate themselves from the right."
Me; "Proof?"
You; "Libertarians made it."

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Here was my original statement in post 175 on that issue

It was created by libertarians for the expressed purpose of charting libertarians to justify the various opinions of libertarians and not place them as rightists on he normal continuum in American political thinking.

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Look at what I said and compare it to what you are claiming I said. If you cannot see the difference, it is time for a class on reading comprehension.

This thread makes me miss the hilarity that was alfons.

I like this demonstration of the political relationships. The Nazi's would be the hardcore statists. Oddly enough, a lot of the people who call themselves "left wing" today end up doing less and less in regard to personal issues and more and more towards big government. Lefts used to want the establishment to quit interfereing in their lives - now, they want the government involved in everything.




Source{{Information |Description=The World's Smallest Political Quiz |Source=en:Image:Worlds-Smallest-Political-Quiz.PNG, ultimately from [http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz/quiz-pdf.pdf] |Date=2007-05-06 |Author=Traced by User:Stannered, original copyri)

GreenvilleGrows said:

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I like this demonstration of the political relationships. The Nazi's would be the hardcore statists. Oddly enough, a lot of the people who call themselves "left wing" today end up doing less and less in regard to personal issues and more and more towards big government. Lefts used to want the establishment to quit interfereing in their lives - now, they want the government involved in everything.




Source{{Information |Description=The World's Smallest Political Quiz |Source=en:Image:Worlds-Smallest-Political-Quiz.PNG, ultimately from [http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz/quiz-pdf.pdf] |Date=2007-05-06 |Author=Traced by User:Stannered, original copyri)

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That is an interpretation which has as its intent to smear those on the left. Obviously there is one huge gulf between the right and the left regarding their view of the role of government. Those on the left generally view the government as an important ally in achieving a sustainable society for all citizens. Those on the right generally do not see it that way . That does not mean however that those on the left favor what you call Big Government in all things or overreaching to take away ones freedoms and rights.

The Political Compass - Test

here is the best test of political views. it follows the division that I suggested.

For American right-wingers, who are devoid of knowledge of this particular world, nazism is a form of socialism. For everyone else it was the last-ditch defence of capitalism, totally supported by big business, who didn't care how many millions it murdered as long as their profits rolled in.

Penderyn said:

For American right-wingers, who are devoid of knowledge of this particular world, nazism is a form of socialism. For everyone else it was the last-ditch defence of capitalism, totally supported by big business, who didn't care how many millions it murdered as long as their profits rolled in.

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Please, God, Jesus, and Santa Claus.... let this brilliant post be the last post of the thread.

Thank you. Amen and rock on!

Fun little exercise - doubtful accuracy, but the results probably represent me fairly well.

hazlnut said:

Please, God, Jesus, and Santa Claus.... let this brilliant post be the last post of the thread.

Thank you. Amen and rock on!

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Why? (The message entered is too short because Americans tend to the long-winded).

Penderyn said:

For American right-wingers, who are devoid of knowledge of this particular world, nazism is a form of socialism. For everyone else it was the last-ditch defence of capitalism, totally supported by big business, who didn't care how many millions it murdered as long as their profits rolled in.

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hazlnut said:

Please, God, Jesus, and Santa Claus.... let this brilliant post be the last post of the thread.

Thank you. Amen and rock on!

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So, Hazlnut, you agree that the Nazis were Socialists? :rofl