View Poll Results: Were the Nazis...

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  • Predominantly Right Wing

    123 50.20%
  • Predominantly Left Wing

    75 30.61%
  • Largely in the center

    18 7.35%
  • Don't know/unsure/no opinion/none of the above

    29 11.84%
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Thread: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

  1. #81
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Oh so are we talking about Nazism vs. Communism as an ideology or are we talking about the economic and political structures of both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union? Because AFAIK this thread was about the former and not the latter...
    There were very real differences regarding the two, but mostly in the form of symbolism and rhetoric. In terms of actual systems in place, there's little difference.

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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    There were very real differences regarding the two, but mostly in the form of symbolism and rhetoric. In terms of actual systems in place, there's little difference.
    Economically there were similarities, socially, there was a very big difference.
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  3. #83
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    Economically there were similarities, socially, there was a very big difference.
    Since the basis of this thread has to do with economics and politics, sociology would be irrelevant. Frankly, you would have to qualify that statement before we could proceed.

  4. #84
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt
    There were very real differences regarding the two, but mostly in the form of symbolism and rhetoric. In terms of actual systems in place, there's little difference.
    Ah okay so then you're not actually discussing Nazism or Communism and whether or not they're left right but rather the USSR and Nazi Germany thanks for clarifying.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  5. #85
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    You don't think the Nazi authorities were in sole control over their nation's economic resources? First, the Nazis issued a 25-Point-Programme in 1920 that explicitely promoted a planned (command) economy. Later, when the Nazis first came to power, the economy was what some historians call, "military Keynesianism." At that time, there was a microscopic sliver of free trade and free association. Once Hitler decided to push forward with war, the economy almost immediately became a planned one.
    As a libertarian you should understand the concept of private property. In Nazi Germany, the government worked in concert with private owners of industry. In the USSR, private owners don't exist and everything is under the control of the government. That single difference is so large that corporatism is much closer to capitalism by comparison. As an example, the U.S. moved from a capitalist to a corporatist system and back in order to produce munitions to fight WW2. A corporatist system has governments awarding contracts to corporations to produce goods, a communist government owns all land and factories and tells them what to make.

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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    As a libertarian you should understand the concept of private property. In Nazi Germany, the government worked in concert with private owners of industry. In the USSR, private owners don't exist and everything is under the control of the government. That single difference is so large that corporatism is much closer to capitalism by comparison. As an example, the U.S. moved from a capitalist to a corporatist system and back in order to produce munitions to fight WW2. A corporatist system has governments awarding contracts to corporations to produce goods, a communist government owns all land and factories and tells them what to make.
    You have to understand libertarian reasoning in order to understand Elijah's position. Private property to them cannot exist outside of a free market, which is the real lynch pin to them. Once the state interferes in the free market to give one organization benefit over the other, or some such thing, then the free market ceases to be. The left/right spectrum to them is defined on state intervention, not the role or status of private property. Based on that, both Nazism (which I interpret as fascism) and Communism are "left wing" because they both require large amounts of state intervention, regardless of what the role/structure of the state itself is or who the system serves.
    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 01-13-11 at 01:46 AM.
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  7. #87
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    The Nazis viewed the progressive political spectrum as dominated by the Jews. 'Nough said.
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    I would define the far left as the government owning and controlling everything and the far right the total absence of government.

    Using those definitions, I would say the NAZIS were left-wing.

  9. #89
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    I would define the far left as the government owning and controlling everything and the far right the total absence of government.
    So you would consider Anarchism to be the most right wing ideology?

  10. #90
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    A "true" communist society? And what exactly is a "true" communist society? Lenin, the grandfather of 20th century communism, initiated his goals for the construction of a communist society based on the belief that it would take time. He did not yet consider Russia communist and that is why it became known as the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Lenin advocated small measures of government takeover that would largely work in conjunction with private businesses.

    It's easy to claim that communism was more pure than that and therefore no such communist system has ever existed. Well since the Catholic Church has been publicly humiliated with the child scandals, I suppose there's no such thing as Catholicism. Just because every living example of communism has proven to fail and to be cruel, it does not automatically disqualify all systems of being communist.
    In bold. Actually, yes it does. You cannot have a communist society where there is any sort of power structure. It is a stateless society. That's what defines it. There has never been a true communist society. Your example of Catholicism doesn't apply. There is not one clear definition of that belief system, firstly. Secondly, the actions of members of that religion do not define that religion. In a society, if you have a "state" it is not communist. Sorry.

    Nazism was an ideology built on the greatness and protection of the German blood, but when Hitler gave the order to scorch everything and to bomb German cities with German citizens, did that disqualify Hitler as a Nazi?
    No it didn't because it continued to meet the goals that he identified.
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