View Poll Results: Were the Nazis...

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  • Predominantly Right Wing

    123 50.20%
  • Predominantly Left Wing

    75 30.61%
  • Largely in the center

    18 7.35%
  • Don't know/unsure/no opinion/none of the above

    29 11.84%
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Thread: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

  1. #391
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Right and left wing politics is a product of liberal democracy (originating in post-revolutionary France), which fascism rejects in full.
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by SirPwn4lot View Post
    Were the Nazi Party of Germany a right wing or left wing establishment?

    I figure this is a better place to discuss than on someone else's thread like we were

    Opinions?
    To me it seems pretty obvious. They even labeled themselves the National Socialist Party.
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    To me it seems pretty obvious. They even labeled themselves the National Socialist Party.
    Being "socialist" was the hip thing in the 1920s-30s.. so calling one self a socialist was far from always linked to actual socialist political ideas, but more to a marketing ploy. The conservative right wing parties often loyal to unpopular royalty and wealthy people, were not exactly popular and calling themselves the National Conservative Party would have backfired...
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Saying that there were fascist and fascism is right wing.. Its pretty common knowledge, and accepted in academics that they were far right wing.


  5. #395
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    To me it seems pretty obvious. They even labeled themselves the National Socialist Party.
    As if party names have any meaning beyond political advertising purposes...

    For example...Peoples Republic of China.

    Republic my ass.


    But, OTOH, to my understanding, the Nazi party DID have some socialists in it at first, but they all got killed off by the rest of the party at one point or another...not sure.
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  6. #396
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    The Nazis were fascists. Fascism is an odd mix of extreme right-wing and extreme left wing ideologies. There's no denying that the Nazi Party's roots are left-wing as it emerged from the German Worker's Party. What it morphed into, however, is something altogether different. For once the Wikipedia article on it is really quite good:

    Fascism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    No doubt..... well, why is it that the first targets for round-up were communists, socialists and liberals?

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    I have often wonder why, if the Nazis were left wing, the first people they rounded up were the left wingers?

    Perhaps Hitler was just telling his troops to "....go out and get our friends and concentrate them in a camp so we call all celebrate?...."

  7. #397
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by SirPwn4lot View Post
    Were the Nazi Party of Germany a right wing or left wing establishment?

    I figure this is a better place to discuss than on someone else's thread like we were

    Opinions?
    The Nazi Party was ideologically schizophrenic from the very beginning and this played a crucial role in enabling electoral success (initially by coincidence and later as a matter of deliberate policy). While books like "Liberal Fascism" massively hyperbolize the connection between Nazism and leftism it would be a mistake to pretend that there wasn't a leftist stream within the NSDAP. The initial National Socialist party that Hitler first took charge of had an obvious socialist tint, so much so that Hitler had to take gradual steps to 'correct' the party orthodoxy as he took control of the organization and completed its centralization. To give an example it wasn't until 1928 that the party program actually clarified that it's commitments to the expropriation of farms and estates was limited to Jewish companies a position which had hitherto frightened the rural Weimar electorate who say a red shadow behind the NSDAP. For a while (especially after the putsch) people like Gregor Strasser controlled the party and pushed it onto an aggressive 'socialist' track advocating "...a German revolution through a German form of socialism". Indeed much of the early Nazi campaign efforts were aimed at the German proletariat and their initial electoral literature reflected it with Goebbels and Strasser running an elaborate urban electoral campaign in Franconia advocating for the seizure of Junker and ex-Royal land for distribution to the people as part of a national revolution which Hitler had to aggressively put down.

    Even after Hitler took control of the party there was dissension, and the diffuse nature of the National Socialist form of government makes it difficult to characterize it properly. The reason is that Hitler more or less operated by bureaucratic feudalism. Education, Agriculture, the Arts, Industry, etc were all parceled out to various Nazi functionaries and party leaders to rule as their own personal fiefdom. To give an example Richard Darre was the Reich Minister for Agriculture and could be best described as a Pagan, Green, Nationalist. He implemented controls on the transference of farm plots, created state capitalist agricultural entities, created the Reich Food Estate to control prices and supply of essential food stuffs and feed, tried to create a unitary agricultural market chain (producers, retailers, consumers, etc), encourage plot subdivision to send more Germans back to the land, etc. How do you define that? There are obviously elements of economic control and state direction, but it also wasn't anything close to an attempt at state ownership of agriculture (quite the opposite). It was also an attempt to promote a societal view (of Germans on the farm and in communion with nature) it was a view shared by Himmler and viewed with skepticism by others because of it's lack of focus on the state.

    This problem repeats itself across the spectrum of the Third Reich.

    Were the Nazi's left wing or right wing? It depends on the time and the person in question. Goebbels was a socialist, Goering was a conservative, Darre was a naturalist. At times they operated as an autarky, at times as state capitalists, at times as feudal kleptocrats.

    The reason they remain difficult to define into the present day is because they never quite got around to doing that for themselves and initial completely divergent steps were eventually subordinated to the re-armament process and later war effort. It is not at all clear what a German economic or social system would have looked like had the Germans won the war and continued with 'normal' governance.

  8. #398
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    The vast majority of people I have ever seen who try to deny that the Nazi's were predominately right wing are modern right wingers.
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  9. #399
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    There's a push among American conservatives to try and rewrite history in order to further their political agenda and recast the Nazis as a left-wing regime. Their reasoning is based on the fact that the Nazi regime was a dictatorship. Then they try to equate dictatorship with big government. And since the Nazis were bad, this must mean that big government is bad. But their reasoning is based on a misunderstanding of history and political definitions. So let's set the record straight on the Nazis, the Communists, and on left and right politics once and for all:

    The Nazis were not left-wing, they were very much right-wing. Why? Because left-wing political ideologies believe that power should be distributed equally to all people; and right-wing political ideologies believe that power should be held by an elite few.

    These political definitions come down to us from the French Revolution. The left bank of the River Seine, which runs through Paris, was working class and poor; the right bank was where the rich, aristocratic types lived. This division found its way into the French Parliament: on the left side of the aisle were those who represented the working class and sought to redistribute power from the aristocrats to the working class; on the right side of the aisle were those who represented the aristocrats and sought to maintain or conserve their power.

    Now, yes, the Nazis were the "Nationalist Socialist Party" - but the term NATIONALIST is the key word there. They believed in Socialism, but only for those who were members of the "Master Race." In other words, they wanted to ensure that the power was held by an elite few, which squarely puts them at the extreme right-wing of the political spectrum.

    Furthermore, the Nazis (and Fascists as well) absolutely HATED Socialists, Communists, Marxist and Leftist political ideologies in general because 1) Marxism (and the left) believes in the political and economic equality of all people regardless of race (Nazis only believed in equality for the Master Race); 2) because the Left tended to attract intellectual types who the Nazis absolutely detested; 3) and because Karl Marx was Jewish.

    The American right-wing trying to recast the Nazis as left-wing is based on their agenda of trying to villainize big government - and on their ignorance of history and politics. American conservatives want to frame the American political debate as the struggle between big government left-wingers and small-government right-wingers, but this is obviously too simple to be true. It's worse than that, it's a half-truth. The whole truth is: Right-wingers only want small government when the government in question is democratic in nature.

    Why? First consider the definition of the word “democracy.” The word “democracy” is a Greek word that means "power to the people." So, by it's very definition, democracy is a left-wing ideology because it seeks to distribute power equally among all the people.

    Therefore, if America is supposed to be a democracy, it would then follow that right-wingers want a small government. Why? Because, right-wing ideologies are interested in preserving the power of an elite few; and since democracy is about the equal distribution of power, it's dangerous to their ideals. So right-wingers would necessarily want to make sure that the American Government - which is the administrator of the collective power of the American people - is a weak and ineffectual government.

    I want to add one more piece of critical information. Communist dictators like Stalin, Mao Zedong and Castro - these kinds of people were Communist in name only. As I stated before, Marxist ideologies like Communism and Socialism believe in the equal distribution of both political and economic power. The fact that Stalin, Mao and Castro restricted the power of those who were not members of the Communist Party makes them the exact opposite of a Communist and, by definition, right-wingers.
    Last edited by Leftist; 11-14-13 at 02:44 PM.

  10. #400
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    really,...... the nazis were fascist...i know the name throws people.

    however whether you have fascist or socialist.......you still have BIG government

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