View Poll Results: Were the Nazis...

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  • Predominantly Right Wing

    123 50.20%
  • Predominantly Left Wing

    75 30.61%
  • Largely in the center

    18 7.35%
  • Don't know/unsure/no opinion/none of the above

    29 11.84%
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Thread: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

  1. #31
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    The American right/left political spectrum cannot properly classify Nazis.
    That spectrum cannot properly classify anything.
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=3227&dateline=1247527  127

  2. #32
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by other View Post
    Very true. If they needed any clarification of who was left or right, they only had to look where they were seated.
    Yep. Back then only the blind people were confused, but then they just had to ask somebody who was near them to tell them who was sitting where.
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  3. #33
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    It matters not to me what party anyone belongs. But I do become scared of those who put "very" anything infront of their political slant. Those who think that only they hold all of the truths are dangerous and for the most part, ignorant people. If there was one thing to learn from Nazism, it is that political extremism is a very dangerous thing and can never lead to good.

  4. #34
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by niftydrifty View Post
    That spectrum cannot properly classify anything.
    Sure it can...

    Obama|----Communists------Republicans---|Center|------REAL AMERICANS-----|THE FOUNDERS (ie: Jesus, some other guys)

    Not listed on this spectrum: the government and people of every other developed nation for the past hundred years.

  5. #35
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by other View Post
    Socialism comes in many variants, why is it dishonest to call their policies what they were?
    I disagree. Socialism has a very specific meaning and any government intervention into the economy is it as it depends entirely on intent.

    Quote Originally Posted by other View Post
    Socialism is only a means to an end, and has been used to suit many philosophical principles.
    I disagree with this too. I see socialism as an end to itself. Also, there are degrees, one can be very socialist and approaching communist or one could be mostly capitalist and only with to use this type of intervention in limited circumstances.

    Quote Originally Posted by other View Post
    Like any means, socialism can be used for purposes that are good and honest or dishonest and evil. No one ever said they were strict socialists out to create a worker's paradise--most states that implement socialist policies don't go that far either.

    Do you honestly believe they valued free-enterprise over a state-controlled economy?
    This is the problem. You automatically think of state intervention as socialist when that is only one of the possible types of state intervention. The spectrum is not either or, nor is it necessarily two dimensional.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 01-11-11 at 01:02 PM.

  6. #36
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Their primary threat was from the Communists, just the opposite as ours is.
    Extremism is the danger, knowledge is the answer.

  7. #37
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by other View Post
    They did employ socialist policies, subordinating manufacturing and other industries to state control in order to ensure that competing elements did not lead to internal divisions in society and to create strength through national solidarity and central planning. Unlike other socialists, however, they made no illusion that such policy was intended to promote the people's interest (other than the line that the state's well-being was the people's well-being). They made no distinction between the state's interest and the people's well-being--to the degree that individuals or even corporate entities (such as unions) were incidental and disposable if they were at odds with the state.
    Disagree...
    If the people were really an intregal part of the state - then true.
    But they were not. The state was an evil NAZI controlled entity...
    So no socialism nor communism( a little similar)
    The people had to be obediant, a natural inclination of the Germans.

  8. #38
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I disagree. Socialism has a very specific meaning and any government intervention into the economy is it as it depends entirely on intent.
    You may disagree, but there are indeed many different forms of socialism.

    I disagree with this too. I see socialism as an end to itself. Also, there are degrees, one can be very socialist and approaching communist or one could be mostly capitalist and only with to use this type of intervention in limited circumstances.
    Of course you can, because it is a means to an end. Socialism is not an end itself, it is a means by which people seek a more egalitarian society (which is the end), ie. equal return on equal investment of labor, and so on. Socialism, because it involves control and redistribution of the means of production and the products of labor can also, however, be used for different ends-- such as the confiscation of a nation's wealth and productive capacity to fight a world war.


    This is the problem. You automatically think of state intervention as socialist when that is only one of the possible types of state intervention. The spectrum is not either or, nor is it necessarily two dimensional.
    When did I say that socialism was the only type of intervention? There are certainly other ways a government can intervene, and the nazi's did intervene through other means as well. They used slave labor, they exploited and confiscated the resources of conquered regions, etc. They used massive keynesian spending programs as well as socialist policies and regulation internally in Germany. Fact is, they used whatever economic policy they could to gain control of whatever resources they could to advance the state.

  9. #39
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Disagree...
    If the people were really an intregal part of the state - then true.
    But they were not. The state was an evil NAZI controlled entity...
    So no socialism nor communism( a little similar)
    The people had to be obediant, a natural inclination of the Germans.
    I'm not understanding what you're saying here, at least not with regard to what I was saying in the previous post. Nice stereotype there though. Fact is, even though you say that obedience is a "natural inclination" of the Germans, Hitler disliked communism in large part because he feared communist-style internal revolutions.

  10. #40
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by other View Post
    You may disagree, but there are indeed many different forms of socialism.
    Can you document this? As far as I can tell, it is basically government intervention into the economy to achieve certain social goals with both the goals and intervention being aspects of the ideology itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by other View Post
    Of course you can, because it is a means to an end. Socialism is not an end itself, it is a means by which people seek a more egalitarian society (which is the end), ie. equal return on equal investment of labor, and so on. Socialism, because it involves control and redistribution of the means of production and the products of labor can also, however, be used for different ends-- such as the confiscation of a nation's wealth and productive capacity to fight a world war.
    A more egalitarian society is an aspect of socialism, not its end goal separated from the process.

    Quote Originally Posted by other View Post
    When did I say that socialism was the only type of intervention? There are certainly other ways a government can intervene, and the nazi's did intervene through other means as well. They used slave labor, they exploited and confiscated the resources of conquered regions, etc. They used massive keynesian spending programs as well as socialist policies and regulation internally in Germany. Fact is, they used whatever economic policy they could to gain control of whatever resources they could to advance the state.
    You are implying it by naming intervention as socialist and opposing it to capitalism as if was necessarily one or the other. However, the latter half of your statement is somewhat correct. In fact, fascists are willing to use what they can to advance their productive goals, which is fundamentally opposed to socialism which has a moral aspect to it (the egalitarianism you mentioned). Without that morality, you cannot call them socialist and be accurate. And even if you want to argue it, because they used whatever they could, economic intervention, capitalism (they did promote corportations did they not), slave labor whatever, you can attach any phrase to them and be just as accurate, rendering the distinction meaningless.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 01-11-11 at 02:38 PM.

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