View Poll Results: Were the Nazis...

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  • Predominantly Right Wing

    123 50.20%
  • Predominantly Left Wing

    75 30.61%
  • Largely in the center

    18 7.35%
  • Don't know/unsure/no opinion/none of the above

    29 11.84%
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Thread: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

  1. #381
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    They were both wings...had the hard-core killers and the fatties with limp wrists. Sharp uniforms though and the heel-clicking thing was effective.

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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    this is 2011....not 1919.
    Israel was founded in 1949. and what do you know of their politics?

  3. #383
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    so your argument is that Hitler had a conversion experience after getting into power that he never mentioned and which has eluded his biographers?

    If you could please point me in the direction of Hitler's later advocation of a free market?
    Germany was a free-market economy from the time Hitler took power until his death.

    yes. for the Fascist, the State was the fundamental unit of society, and everyone's primary relationship was with it. As Mussolini put it, "All within the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State".
    Your point?


    that's true, and gave medals awards and all manner of benefits to those who had more than their share of genetically desirable children. What they didn't really care about was whether or not the woman was married to the father, as exampled by your next point:
    Family Life in Nazi Germany


    Family was also a major propaganda issue in Nazi Germany with the party propaganda machine pushing the importance of a large family. The party set up an office that had specific responsibility to deal with mothers and their children – the Mother and Child Welfare Office. While the figures for marriage and divorce do not bear out the Nazi claim that family developed under the Nazi regime, the figures for the number of children born do. There was a steady increase in births after 1933. However, the state did all it could to support and encourage large families. In June 1933 the marriage load was introduced to help out newly married couples. The loan was RM 600, which equalled the income over four months for the average person. A quarter of the loan was cancelled for every child a couple had – so four children resulted in no payments being made. Another condition of the loan was that the wife had to give up work if she was employed at the time of marriage
    .

    not really. the SS existed as a parrallel organization to the Abwehr and the Wermacht. It's common for ideological dictatorships to do this - witness the KGB in the USSR, and the GRB and IRGC in North Korea and Iran today. The SS was there specifically to swear allegiance to the Nazi Party and Hitler in particular due to Party distrust of the traditional military leadership (as they were largely made up of old-school Prussian nobility).
    I say again, the SS represented the more radical elements of the party, and their beliefs and practices did not represent the German state or National Socialist party as a whole.

    well, yeah, that was also generally the policy of the Party and the Policy of the State.
    They wanted a stable family in addition to a high Aryan birth rate.

    It was hardly restricted to just Himmler. Hess, for example, was a member of the Thule Society, and that is where Nazis' drew the Swastika from.
    But Hess and others didn't want to supplant Christianity in Germany with paganism. That was Himmler's idea.

    eh, dependent. Nazi's also accepted the argument (drawing from both Gibbons and Kant) that Christianity had weakened the Teutonic peoples, and was therefore a long-term threat to their taking their rightful place in history. Nazis' accepted what they called "Positive Christianity", by which they meant Christianity without the Old Testament, the Pauline Letters, the doctrine of Original Sin, the existence of Hell and the doctrine of Grace... Christianity was either to serve the state (all within the state), or it was an alternate power center, and was then to be destroyed.
    This has little to do with left-wing vs right wing or family values.


    you are very incorrect. In Germany between the wars, militant nationalism and expansionism was the belief system of the wide majority of the populace, who saw themselves as having been brutally cheated and humiliated to a place below their natural station. If anything, it was the Prussian nobility who thought that Hitler was pushing too far, and would destroy the nation through unsustainable expansionism. That, after all, is why they eventually repented of their deal with the devil, and turned on him. It was the Ivory Tower academic types like Haushofer who were urging that the German people naturally take control of the Euroafrican "pan region".
    The Prussian military caste pretty much backed Hitler's expansionism, but some were a bit apprehensive about another world war. They wanted a strong German military, but they also wanted to use it.


    I'm not out here to demonize anyone - certainly no one is suggesting that modern liberals are racists just because Nazi's were lefties. However, yes, indeed, in fact, racism and nationalism were very much a part of the left-wing movements of the day in the West. You may wish to do some reading on the history of Eugenics in this country (hint: some of our progressive "racial scientists" were working with their counterparts from a particular German political party).
    I won't disagree with this. This certainly was true during the early 20th century, but to ignore the racism and nationalism of the Right would be disingenuous.
    AN AUTHORITARIAN SOCIALIST OPPOSED TO GLOBALISM, ZIONISM, AND FEMINISM, AND IN FAVOR OF SOVEREIGN NATIONS, A PALESTINIAN STATE, AND MEN'S RIGHTS!

  4. #384
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Until our current President I would have said neither, but many of his ideas while not as extreme to favor Nazi Germany when it comes to government intervention. We are living in a class, social, and race driven society under his leadership. Not since Jimmy Carter has innovation and business minded responsible people been penalized like they are today.

  5. #385
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by SirPwn4lot View Post
    Were the Nazi Party of Germany a right wing or left wing establishment?

    I figure this is a better place to discuss than on someone else's thread like we were

    Opinions?
    I would say they were more tail area, near the exhaust.

  6. #386
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    whether you have the nazis, socialist or communist, all three of those require more government, then the founding fathers had intended for our federal government, which is to be limited in powers and not involved in the personal life's of the people.

  7. #387
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Nazis were very pro-business if you ask Mercedes-Benz, I.G. Farben, or Krupp. So pro-business they allowed them to use slave labor.

    Nazis were so wedded to the idea of women in a very structured, domestic role (Kinder, Küche, Kirche, or children, kitchen, church) that they opposed women working factory jobs while they were off at war, even though that helped the US win.

  8. #388
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Wow, blast from the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by Graffias View Post
    Germany was a free-market economy from the time Hitler took power until his death.
    No. It was a corporatist economy. It became a freer economy after WWII, which is why it then took off. Under Hitler, however, the economy had featured everything from Price Controls to Centralized Allocation of resources.

    But I notice you did not answer the question - can you point me towards Hitlers' celebration of a free market?

    Your point?
    That that is a left-wing idea, not a right-wing one.

    yeah - the Nazis wanted lots of good Aryan kids, and weren't terribly concerned how they got them. Much like the left-wing welfare states of today, the Nazis paid people to have kids.

    I say again, the SS represented the more radical elements of the party, and their beliefs and practices did not represent the German state or National Socialist party as a whole.

    They wanted a stable family in addition to a high Aryan birth rate.

    But Hess and others didn't want to supplant Christianity in Germany with paganism. That was Himmler's idea.

    This has little to do with left-wing vs right wing or family values.

    The Prussian military caste pretty much backed Hitler's expansionism, but some were a bit apprehensive about another world war. They wanted a strong German military, but they also wanted to use it.

    I won't disagree with this. This certainly was true during the early 20th century, but to ignore the racism and nationalism of the Right would be disingenuous.
    Most of this seems to be rather minor disagreements - I think that at best the military was in favor of a series of limited objectives; retaking land lost after WWI, restoration of national pride, etc. But you were pretty much correct when you described the Nazis as "a moderate socialist state with a fiercely nationalist stance".

    As for now? The problem with ascribing racism/nationalism to the Right becomes a matter of definition - and this is why I don't like the conservative/liberal debate, either. In the U.S., Conservatives are Liberals - Liberalism is what they are trying to preserve. Liberals here are Progressives who took on the L name because the P name became too much of a political dead-weight (similar to how many of them then went back to P when L got a bad name). In Europe, Conservatism has traditionally meant Crown and Church - Nationalism has been the emotional call of the Left-wing movement there, as well, since the French Revolution. Now it gets' confused, and people mistake shades for a totality - all desire to maintain national autonomy is not "Nationalism", except insomuch as you are willing to weaken the word to where it is meaningless. So Leftism (who may call themselves Liberals), having abandoned nationalism (except when it comes to trade policy, where they are very nationalistic indeed), has moved on instead to supra-nationalism, the immanetization of the eschaton through supra-national projects instead. It's the same ole same ole, but with a different Savior mechanism.

  9. #389
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
    Nazis were very pro-business if you ask Mercedes-Benz, I.G. Farben, or Krupp. So pro-business they allowed them to use slave labor.
    Precisely. Pro-Big-Business =/= Free Economy. It is not hands-off-the-market; it is hands-on-the-market-to-steer-its'-results-towards-favored-enterprises.

  10. #390
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    chicken wing

    what else does a nazi remind me of?

    soaps

    what a shame

    they still ask if it is right
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

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