View Poll Results: Were the Nazis...

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  • Predominantly Right Wing

    123 50.20%
  • Predominantly Left Wing

    75 30.61%
  • Largely in the center

    18 7.35%
  • Don't know/unsure/no opinion/none of the above

    29 11.84%
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Thread: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

  1. #321
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    If all the African Americans in America vanished over a short period of just few years, could anybody honestly claim to have not noticed?
    big difference between "they've been moved" and "they are being exterminated". In addition, the power of the human mind to push from its' forefront questions it does not want answered is significant indeed. I remember watching one interview with a German citizen from the era who said they had been told the Jews from their area had been sent to live in Madagascar, to live out their Zionist dream of a Jewish community there, and nobody questioned it.

  2. #322
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Thank you, Sam. Good post.

    I was considering a reply to the bit about how businessmen may go along with it, but I can't top CP's reply.
    Last edited by LuckyDan; 12-04-11 at 12:40 AM.

  3. #323
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinS View Post
    No, Democrats (if that is what you mean by liberals) are much less authoritarian and economically are slightly more right-wing than fascists.

    Both American liberals and American conservatives are far away from fascism. Conservatives are closer in social policies and farther in economic policies, but liberals are closer in economic policies and farther in social policies.
    really? Conservatives are in favor of abortion, the breakdown of the family as the primary unit in society, reducing the role of Christianity in society, and defining people based on their race?

  4. #324
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Nazism national socialism is anti intellectual
    many NAZIs' weren't particularly intellectual. Hess, for counterexample, was a favored student of (then) legendary German Geopolitical Professor Karl Haushofer.

    if you want intellectual Fascism, then you need (as another poster has alluded) Benito Mussolini.

  5. #325
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    many NAZIs' weren't particularly intellectual. Hess, for counterexample, was a favored student of (then) legendary German Geopolitical Professor Karl Haushofer.

    if you want intellectual Fascism, then you need (as another poster has alluded) Benito Mussolini.
    And that has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.

  6. #326
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill
    really? Conservatives are in favor of abortion, the breakdown of the family as the primary unit in society, reducing the role of Christianity in society, and defining people based on their race?
    You do not understand the point here. Conservatives want more social regulations installed; this makes them more authoritarian. Don't take it the wrong way, I mean you no harm. Conservatives are significantly less authoritarian than fascists.

  7. #327
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    That is incorrect. While Socialist Revolutions always like to style themselves as bottom-up, in practice since the Russian Revolution Socialism has more generally followed Lenin's Theory of the Vanguard



    which indeed argued for a need for top-down organization, radicalization, and mobilization of the masses.

    It is worth noting in that context that the article is a bit blurry on the differences between Marx and Engels - Engels was more tempted by the "it will just all happen naturally and then there will be no states, no governments, and we shall all live together forever in a workers paradise" naive idiocy common to the upper-middle-class champagne socialist. Marx, being poorer, was a good bit more open to the idea of bloodshed.
    By "top-down" I do not mean that socialism is non-hierarchical. What I mean is that fascists revolutions are typically supported from the wealthy or influential classes, those "on top." Socialism does have hierarchies but are generally supported by the "bottom" of economic classes, specifically the labor classes.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    isn't it interesting, then, how the NASDP party platform called for large industry to see partial nationalization, forced distribution of profits among the employee, the banning of capital gains, subjugation before the interests of the German Workers, and state prejudice against large department stores in favor of the mom-and-pops.
    And yet Nazism is based on the racial supremacy of the German peoples and cultures over all other races, and their claim that such supremacy is so inherent in their race and culture that they shall have a Thousand Year Reign. Which is nationalist in nature.

    And also why I stated that Nazism is neither socialist or fascist - I was just pointing out the two major differences in fascism and socialism in general.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    The Business Plot? really?
    Yes, really, because I wanted to focus on instances here in the U.S., which is rather difficult since the U.S. has not gone through either a fascist or socialist revolution and I was just using it as an example.



    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    for example, students.
    Many of which learn to become technical workers themselves and, according to socialist rhetoric, may be exploited by the capitalist class as well even though their labor is intellectual or technical in nature rather than manual.



    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    in matters of emphasis that is correct, but your next part:



    is not necessarily correct at all. The National Socialist German Workers Party was indeed fairly concerned with class, and Hitler was indeed a class-struggle proponent, though he tended to blur between "Jewish" and "Financiers" and "Big Business".
    Again, I was talking about the differences between fascism and socialism in general and not how they pertained to Nazism. With regards to Nazism, Hitler used doctrines of any kind he could to attain power and have Germany re-emerge as a world power in the post Great War era while also initiating his hatred against Jews and other non-Germanic peoples.



    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    No, SOME socialists say this - and SOME socialists were NATIONALIST and hence argued in favor of National Socialism, the notion that you can and should have socialism within one country. That is why the Italy-Germany-Japan Alliance was called the Anti-Comintern Pact rather than the Anti-Socialism Pact.
    Historically speaking much of socialist rhetoric supports what I mentioned rather than what you mention, and the majority of socialist and communist groups attempt to act with international cooperation rather than against their fellow labor class in other nations, even possible enemy nations. This is why the socialists and communists of the 1920's protested the Great War - because they believed that the war was oppressing the labor class of all the nations involved for the benefit of the wealth class of those individual nations.
    Last edited by samsmart; 12-04-11 at 12:55 AM.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  8. #328
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinS View Post
    You do not understand the point here. Conservatives want more social regulations installed; this makes them more authoritarian.
    and liberals support social regulations as well - usually the only conservative 'regulation' that people really reference that conservatives want added is the pro-life bit, but even that isn't a social regulation, it's an extension of the states' pre-existing compelling interest in restraining violence.

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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Yes, but they want to maintain many, too. I should have been more specific. I meant the amount of social regulation that conservatives want, not want to install.

  10. #330
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinS View Post
    You do not understand the point here. Conservatives want more social regulations installed; this makes them more authoritarian. Don't take it the wrong way, I mean you no harm. Conservatives are significantly less authoritarian than fascists.
    i know you have CP on your ass already, (and I know how it is dealing with gang replies) but I have to ask, as a con, what "social regulation" are cons trying to install?

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