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Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

Were the Nazis...

  • Predominantly Right Wing

    Votes: 66 51.2%
  • Predominantly Left Wing

    Votes: 27 20.9%
  • Largely in the center

    Votes: 10 7.8%
  • Don't know/unsure/no opinion/none of the above

    Votes: 26 20.2%

  • Total voters
    129
For American right-wingers, who are devoid of knowledge of this particular world, nazism is a form of socialism. For everyone else it was the last-ditch defence of capitalism, totally supported by big business, who didn't care how many millions it murdered as long as their profits rolled in.

That's a revision of history, too, since most of the big businessmen in Germany didn't even know the Holocaust was happening.
 
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Fun little exercise - doubtful accuracy, but the results probably represent me fairly well.
Interesting...

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I didn't like some of the questions, because (for me) they didn't fully reflect my views - there's one that I wanted to answer "both" on...forget which.


But in general, it seemed well done.
 
That's a revision of history, too, since most of the big businessmen in Germany didn't even know the Holocaust was happening.

They supported the nazis and used slave labour. We knew about that in Britain. America, of course, was very pro-nazi until Germany declared war, and still is essentially.
 
That's a revision of history, too, since most of the big businessmen in Germany didn't even know the Holocaust was happening.

If all the African Americans in America vanished over a short period of just few years, could anybody honestly claim to have not noticed?
 
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If all the African Americans in America vanished over a short period of just few years, could anybody honestly claim to have not noticed?

With Germany being physically smaller than the state of Montana it would be like Montana losing 6 million people and Montanans not noticing. In another words. BS.
 
Here was my original statement in post 175 on that issue




Look at what I said and compare it to what you are claiming I said. If you cannot see the difference, it is time for a class on reading comprehension.

Again I ask, proof?
I know what you wrote and now I want proof, for your conspiracy theory.
 
For American right-wingers, who are devoid of knowledge of this particular world, nazism is a form of socialism. For everyone else it was the last-ditch defence of capitalism, totally supported by big business, who didn't care how many millions it murdered as long as their profits rolled in.

Nazism is a form of fascism, which is state direction of private enterprise.
It is not a "last ditch defense of capitalism."
Such an idiotic statement.

Big business often didn't have a choice.
The state said, you can earn this much profit, you can pay this in dividends and we will place a government controller to make sure you do what we want.
Read some history before making inane statements like you just did.
 
I'm not. I'm just commenting on the comments of others.

Acytually you are cherrypicking a statement to trash the original meaning, a duplicitous action not unknown in true believers.
 
It's interesting that the "Political Spectrum" has been used in the thread. I wonder where Hitler would come in their scoring system?

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Oh, there. On the right.
 
OK, here 'ya go......

Thank you.

I would add:

a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

Fascism | Define Fascism at Dictionary.com

But I was replying to your statement:

Fascism, of course, is right wing, in that it calls for corporate control of government.

Your pasted definition says fascism is government control of corporations, if I'm reading it right. And I would agree. Not very "right" sounding somehow.
 
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Manc Skipper said:
Oh, there. On the right.
Yes, but only slightly to the right. He was predominantly a centrist, economic-wise. The real extremity here lies in his authoritarianism.
 
Were the Nazi Party of Germany a right wing or left wing establishment?

I figure this is a better place to discuss than on someone else's thread like we were :)

Opinions?

None of the above.

It is an ideology centered on the racist ramblings of a madman that came to power during a country's darkest times that caused it to do even darker things in an attempt to escape it.
 
Your pasted definition says fascism is government control of corporations, if I'm reading it right. And I would agree. Not very "right" sounding somehow.

I know 'm getting involved in this argument pretty late. However, I'd like to state the two major differences between fascism and socialism.

The first major difference is that fascist revolutions occur from the "top" down while socialist revolutions occur from the "bottom" up.

That is industrialists and businessmen typically take part in fascist revolutions so they can force the government to be more business centric in their policies. A good example of this is the Business Plot that was alleged to be conspired against FDR here in the U.S. On the other end of the spectrum are socialist revolutions, which is done by laborers of various kinds. In the U.S. examples of this can be found in the First Red Scare in the post Great War era in which laborers went on massive strikes to demand better conditions and rights for workers.

The second difference between fascism and socialism is that fascists typically use nationalist divisions whereas socialists use class divisions.

Fascists basically say, "We may be of different economic classes, but it is our common culture and country that is most important and what we should use that bind us. By doing so, we can better defend ourselves from encroachments of other cultures and countries who would change those aspects of us."

Socialists, however, say, "Borders of culture and countries are just tools that the economic elites use to divide workers and get the labor class to fight against itself. However, the wealthy class of all nations have more in common with each other than they do with the labor class of the same nation. Likewise, the labor class of all nations have more in common with each other than they do the wealthy class of the same nation. And so the labor class of all nations should seek solidarity with each other in order to prevent their mutual economic exploitation."

So there are a lot of fundamental differences between fascism and socialism, both in the reality of how they are implemented and used and in the rhetoric they use to justify their policies.
 
It's interesting that the "Political Spectrum" has been used in the thread. I wonder where Hitler would come in their scoring system?

Oh, there. On the right.

well, yeah. another one of the several problems with that test. Interesting how they put him Right There On The Line, though, as if he had to be on the right... but they just couldn't justify the idiocy of trying to pretend like the man was a free-market advocate.
 
I know 'm getting involved in this argument pretty late. However, I'd like to state the two major differences between fascism and socialism.

The first major difference is that fascist revolutions occur from the "top" down while socialist revolutions occur from the "bottom" up.

That is incorrect. While Socialist Revolutions always like to style themselves as bottom-up, in practice since the Russian Revolution Socialism has more generally followed Lenin's Theory of the Vanguard

...A vanguard party is a political party at the forefront of a mass action, movement, or revolution. The idea of a vanguard party has its origins in the Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. The concept is most well known for being put into practice by the Bolshevik Party in Russia...

which indeed argued for a need for top-down organization, radicalization, and mobilization of the masses.

It is worth noting in that context that the article is a bit blurry on the differences between Marx and Engels - Engels was more tempted by the "it will just all happen naturally and then there will be no states, no governments, and we shall all live together forever in a workers paradise" naive idiocy common to the upper-middle-class champagne socialist. Marx, being poorer, was a good bit more open to the idea of bloodshed.

That is industrialists and businessmen typically take part in fascist revolutions so they can force the government to be more business centric in their policies.

isn't it interesting, then, how the NASDP party platform called for large industry to see partial nationalization, forced distribution of profits among the employee, the banning of capital gains, subjugation before the interests of the German Workers, and state prejudice against large department stores in favor of the mom-and-pops.

A good example of this is the Business Plot that was alleged to be conspired against FDR here in the U.S.

:doh The Business Plot? really?

On the other end of the spectrum are socialist revolutions, which is done by laborers of various kinds.

for example, students.

The second difference between fascism and socialism is that fascists typically use nationalist divisions whereas socialists use class divisions.

in matters of emphasis that is correct, but your next part:

Fascists basically say, "We may be of different economic classes, but it is our common culture and country that is most important and what we should use that bind us. By doing so, we can better defend ourselves from encroachments of other cultures and countries who would change those aspects of us."

is not necessarily correct at all. The National Socialist German Workers Party was indeed fairly concerned with class, and Hitler was indeed a class-struggle proponent, though he tended to blur between "Jewish" and "Financiers" and "Big Business".

Socialists, however, say, "Borders of culture and countries are just tools that the economic elites use to divide workers and get the labor class to fight against itself.

No, SOME socialists say this - and SOME socialists were NATIONALIST and hence argued in favor of National Socialism, the notion that you can and should have socialism within one country. That is why the Italy-Germany-Japan Alliance was called the Anti-Comintern Pact rather than the Anti-Socialism Pact.
 
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None of the above.

It is an ideology centered on the racist ramblings of a madman that came to power during a country's darkest times that caused it to do even darker things in an attempt to escape it.

that is also incorrect. National Socialism welded together a disparate and desperate people, pulled from the intellectual themes of the day, and provided a powerful springboard for the German nation. to try to dismiss it as racist ramblings simply because it is inconvenient of us to understand why it had the pull it did is foolish.
 
that is also incorrect. National Socialism welded together a disparate and desperate people, pulled from the intellectual themes of the day, and provided a powerful springboard for the German nation. to try to dismiss it as racist ramblings simply because it is inconvenient of us to understand why it had the pull it did is foolish.

Nazism national socialism is anti intellectual
 
If all the African Americans in America vanished over a short period of just few years, could anybody honestly claim to have not noticed?

big difference between "they've been moved" and "they are being exterminated". In addition, the power of the human mind to push from its' forefront questions it does not want answered is significant indeed. I remember watching one interview with a German citizen from the era who said they had been told the Jews from their area had been sent to live in Madagascar, to live out their Zionist dream of a Jewish community there, and nobody questioned it.
 
Thank you, Sam. Good post.

I was considering a reply to the bit about how businessmen may go along with it, but I can't top CP's reply.
 
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No, Democrats (if that is what you mean by liberals) are much less authoritarian and economically are slightly more right-wing than fascists.

Both American liberals and American conservatives are far away from fascism. Conservatives are closer in social policies and farther in economic policies, but liberals are closer in economic policies and farther in social policies.

really? Conservatives are in favor of abortion, the breakdown of the family as the primary unit in society, reducing the role of Christianity in society, and defining people based on their race?
 
Nazism national socialism is anti intellectual

many NAZIs' weren't particularly intellectual. Hess, for counterexample, was a favored student of (then) legendary German Geopolitical Professor Karl Haushofer.

if you want intellectual Fascism, then you need (as another poster has alluded) Benito Mussolini.
 
many NAZIs' weren't particularly intellectual. Hess, for counterexample, was a favored student of (then) legendary German Geopolitical Professor Karl Haushofer.

if you want intellectual Fascism, then you need (as another poster has alluded) Benito Mussolini.

And that has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.
 
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