View Poll Results: Were the Nazis...

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  • Predominantly Right Wing

    123 50.20%
  • Predominantly Left Wing

    75 30.61%
  • Largely in the center

    18 7.35%
  • Don't know/unsure/no opinion/none of the above

    29 11.84%
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Thread: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

  1. #121
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    And where did you learn that? Is that your guess or do you really know for sure? It's hard to imagine a bureaucrat anywhere who didn't make a profit from the industry he controlled.
    Reality is not limited to the extent of your imagination.
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  2. #122
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    I think that there is some confusion over the term "corporatism." You don't actually need corporations for corporatism to exist. You can replace it with labor unions, bureaucrats, or any other interest groups. That's all corporatism is, the institutionalization of special interest groups into the government.
    bingo. unions, in fact, are inherently corporatist.

  3. #123
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    So I'm feeling the whole "Nazis are leftwing" is some sortof new development in the political thought of the right in the last decade or so during resurgence? Because I really never encountered the idea in my life until recently, frankly, during Obama. I don't really know.
    nope.


    The Road To Serfdom: 1943

    ...Hayek challenged the general view among British academics that fascism was a capitalist reaction against socialism, instead arguing that fascism and socialism had common roots in central economic planning and the power of the state over the individual...
    Last edited by cpwill; 01-14-11 at 10:11 AM.

  4. #124
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Women's rights and same sex marriage come to mind.
    interesting claim, that lack of support for 'social equality' = conservativism.


    you realize (among others) this would force you to argue that Cuba under Castro is a conservative enterprise..... ?

  5. #125
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Before or during the war?
    In general.
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  6. #126
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    interesting claim, that lack of support for 'social equality' = conservativism.


    you realize (among others) this would force you to argue that Cuba under Castro is a conservative enterprise..... ?
    Is conservatism even really a concrete political structure? Today many people appear to understand conservatism as a "small government" political structure . . . but that to me is libertarianism. I've always understood conservatism (and someone please correct me if I'm mistaken) as a view that maintaining traditional values and government structure is important. But this doesn't say anything about what those structures and values are. So conservatism, at least as I understand it, doesn't really carry its own unique kind of structure. It can be applied to any existing governmental structure. Rather, there is libertarianism, which is a small-government philosophy based on individual liberty, and something else (I don't think socialism, communism, or facism completely fit the bill) on the other side where government regulates everything. Most societies are some combination of both (IMO, because a society that is completely libertarian or completely big-government won't work). Where the idea of social equality falls seems somewhat vague. If everyone is provided liberty that should provide some types of equality. But left to nature and free markets, etc., I don't think there would be full social equality. I don't know, just musing now.

  7. #127
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    In general.
    From what I've read on the subject, Stalin actually put in place some things that generally increased the standard of living for many people (Russia's literacy levels shot way up under Stalin, for example).

    During the war, the standards of living plummetted pretty much for everyone (but this is true of Germany as well).

    Obviously, for some, the standards of living were attrocious throughout due to persecution. But again, this wa strue of germany as well.

    As far as Germany goes, only a certain population saw increases in the standard of living. Generally, there was an overall decline.
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  8. #128
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    It's funny how people on both sides of the spectrum choose to deny their chidlren's identities.

    The twentieth century was the most violent blood soaked century in global history. This was not due to religion (to the dismay of athiests everywhere). This was due to the intellectual's idea that he could "perfect" humanity by creating the "perfect" system of organizational control. And yes, it began with the left before the global left became decrepit and before American liberals became confused and bewildered of their world.

    Hitler's political party was called the National Socialist German Workers Party. The two key words are "Socialist" and "Workers." Orginially, the workers of the world fought against capitalistic greed and worker abuses (economics). Marx wrote against capitalism and introduced an impractical vision of community called communism. Well, the workers eventually won, formed into unions, and eventually formed governments. In Europe, Hitler rose out of this crowd and turned the worker's plight into a national plight against all of Europe. The very name of his political party identify it him to grass root leftism. He eventually became history's most brutal dictator and defined extreme conservatism on the social level and government level. The word dictator is generally attributed to the right because it involves rules, traditions, and strict guidelines for behaviors (conservatism). Stalin and Mao (also dictators) attempted to create socialist communist governments and were willing to damn entire civilizations through conservative behaviors just to prove the possibility of leftists ideals. Between Hitler's left/right history and Stalin and Mao's leftist/rightest history, they managed to litter the earth with millions of corpses between Berlin and Cambodia. Of course, this is a bit simplified and just hits the key notes but people who seek to detail out the threads of these matters are typically looking for a way to disown something.

    And what have the worker's unions done today in America? Sent our coporations over seas. There is more to the "left" than just a simple self-righteous struggle for social utopia. The last century was bloodied out of leftist ideals. Given half a chance, the global left would damn the entire world just to chase impractical dreams while preaching on equality, humanitarianism, and peace.
    Last edited by MSgt; 01-14-11 at 04:23 PM.

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  9. #129
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    From what I've read on the subject, Stalin actually put in place some things that generally increased the standard of living for many people (Russia's literacy levels shot way up under Stalin, for example).

    During the war, the standards of living plummetted pretty much for everyone (but this is true of Germany as well).

    Obviously, for some, the standards of living were attrocious throughout due to persecution. But again, this wa strue of germany as well.

    As far as Germany goes, only a certain population saw increases in the standard of living. Generally, there was an overall decline.
    You are describing the difference between the elite and the rest. It's hardly a case to show improvement in a society considering that historically, nobody ever cared to keep track of the under priveledged. Numbers have usually only reflected the distinct crowd (especially when merely attempting to compare to other countries). The elite typically always improve their stations under any government since they make the rules with intellectual support and these numbers are always produced to offer an illusion of national identity. History has shown that when intellectuals and the elite join hands, the grave diggers start getting over time.

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  10. #130
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by ??? View Post
    Is conservatism even really a concrete political structure? Most societies are some combination of both (IMO, because a society that is completely libertarian or completely big-government won't work)..... Where the idea of social equality falls seems somewhat vague. If everyone is provided liberty that should provide some types of equality. But left to nature and free markets, etc., I don't think there would be full social equality. I don't know, just musing now.
    Yeah, not really. Most of the terms we throw around are not concrete political anything Libertarianism is closer than most, it's an abstract that you can measure against. That's why libertarians go so crazy at U.S. public rhetoric, how it is designed to make it Dem or Republican, but entirely misses the actual things of importance.

    Also why repub/dems label libertarians as idealists...which in some cases is fair.

    As to the idea of social equality, I think you'll find the only ethical position is that a government should not attempt to enforce any sort of social uniformity at the expense of individual liberty. It's doomed to be unethical, and once it becomes up to a minority in political party to do the pie cutting....we're ****ed (i.e. that always happens, so you're always ****ed).

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