View Poll Results: Were the Nazis...

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  • Predominantly Right Wing

    123 50.20%
  • Predominantly Left Wing

    75 30.61%
  • Largely in the center

    18 7.35%
  • Don't know/unsure/no opinion/none of the above

    29 11.84%
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Thread: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

  1. #111
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    I think that there is some confusion over the term "corporatism." You don't actually need corporations for corporatism to exist. You can replace it with labor unions, bureaucrats, or any other interest groups. That's all corporatism is, the institutionalization of special interest groups into the government.
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  2. #112
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    You are ignoring the glaring difference between making a deal with private owners and the state owning everything. Nazi policy was to give private owners tax breaks, legalized monopolies and squelch labor problems in return for political support and military buildup. Soviet policy was to send private owners to a re-education camp and grab their assets. In Germany a factory owner could make a profit if he played ball with the Nazi's. By 1933, factory owners didn't even exist in the USSR. There is a vast gulf between a mutually beneficial alliance versus obliteration and looting.
    And you don't the people placed in charge of the newly acquired industries by the Soviet Union made a profit?

  3. #113
    Count Smackula
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    And you don't the people placed in charge of the newly acquired industries by the Soviet Union made a profit?
    Nope. They administrated the factory, but they did not receive a cut of what the factory produced.

  4. #114
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by SirPwn4lot View Post
    Were the Nazi Party of Germany a right wing or left wing establishment?

    I figure this is a better place to discuss than on someone else's thread like we were

    Opinions?
    Most liberals/leftists/socialists/communists want to associate it with the right or call it corporatism. I'm not buying it. If you put these types of governments on a continuum from classical liberalism (we now call it conservatism) and it's emphasis on limited government and a maximum amount of individual liberaties to communism and it's emphasis on a strong, powerful central government that intrudes regularly with it's population. National socializm is far closer to communism in that they relied on a strong powerful central government and minimal liberties for it's citizens. In most respects it would seem closer to todays european socialist democracies in that they both allow corporations to exist. In point of fact communist china also now seems to be following this paradigm. Interesting.
    Last edited by Dutch; 01-13-11 at 10:22 PM.
    He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. ~ Winston Churchill

  5. #115
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch
    If you put these types of governments on a continuum from classical liberalism (we now call it conservatism) and it's emphasis on limited government and a maximum amount of individual liberaties to communism and it's emphasis on a strong, powerful central government that intrudes regularly with it's population.
    Thank you for validating what I wrote earlier. It's funny because communism doesn't have a government at all, much less a "strong, powerful central" one.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  6. #116
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Nope. They administrated the factory, but they did not receive a cut of what the factory produced.
    And where did you learn that? Is that your guess or do you really know for sure? It's hard to imagine a bureaucrat anywhere who didn't make a profit from the industry he controlled.

  7. #117
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    In what way does conservatism reject social equality?
    Women's rights and same sex marriage come to mind.

  8. #118
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Nope. They administrated the factory, but they did not receive a cut of what the factory produced.
    Also, as DrunkenAsparagus mentioned, I think it matters very little. In one sense, the bureaucrats are directly controlling the business and there is no middle-man. In the other world, the bureaucrats are directly controlling the entrepreneurs and allowing them to remain in position for various reasons (public appeal, delegation of duties, etc.) In both scenarios, the business (or corporation) is controlled by the state. And you can't argue that corporations did not exist because it would be definitively incorrect based on any given meaning of corporatism.

  9. #119
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    And where did you learn that? Is that your guess or do you really know for sure? It's hard to imagine a bureaucrat anywhere who didn't make a profit from the industry he controlled.
    If you wanted wealth and power in the Soviet system, you climbed the ranks of the political structure. Operating a factory mostly meant being forced to jump through all kinds of hoops in order to meet the demands of the planning committee. The true power of the soviet system was in divorcing the concept of wealth through ownership. Administration had certain perks, but they came from the party not the factory.

  10. #120
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    Re: Were the Nazis Right or Left Wing?

    Also, as DrunkenAsparagus mentioned, I think it matters very little. In one sense, the bureaucrats are directly controlling the business and there is no middle-man. In the other world, the bureaucrats are directly controlling the entrepreneurs and allowing them to remain in position for various reasons (public appeal, delegation of duties, etc.) In both scenarios, the business (or corporation) is controlled by the state.
    That isn't how the Fascist system worked. Most industrialists willingly participated in fascist economics because they personally gained immense wealth (at the war went badly). The government gave them profitable monopolies in return for going along with then national agenda. In Italy, Mussolini was striped of power when his war made the arrangement no longer profitable. Hitler also allowed considerable autonomy until the war became desperate in '44.

    And you can't argue that corporations did not exist because it would be definitively incorrect based on any given meaning of corporatism.
    The USSR was not corporatist. The best descriptor would be a planned economy, as economic output was determined by a central committee giving orders to state owned factories.

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