View Poll Results: Which Religion is more "pushy?" Christianity or Islam?

Voters
84. You may not vote on this poll
  • Christianity

    22 26.19%
  • Islam

    62 73.81%
Page 9 of 22 FirstFirst ... 789101119 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 211

Thread: Which Religion is more "pushy?" Christianity or Islam?

  1. #81
    Professor
    other's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    VA
    Last Seen
    01-22-14 @ 11:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    1,473

    Re: Which Religion is more "pushy?" Christianity or Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    And, there's more....

    Christian extremism in Africa is a very serious and growing problem. Uganda's laws, encouraged by American fundamentalists, that would make homosexuality punishable by death, are the tip of the iceberg.

    AFP: Kenya mob burns 15 women to death over witchcraft

    In Africa, at least, there is very little difference between the extremist Islamic and the extremist Christian.
    Where in this story does it say these are christians?

    It mentions a pastor, but his family was victimized by the violence, not perpetrating it. The article even points out that the mobs were followers of "witch-doctors" who kill albinos for good luck. Belief in "witchcraft" or evil spirits and such is a remnant that survives from much older African religions/traditions, and is also common in other cultures, from new guinea to the philippines.

  2. #82
    free market communist
    Gardener's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Last Seen
    09-30-17 @ 12:27 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    26,661

    Re: Which Religion is more "pushy?" Christianity or Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    What is it that C. S. Lewis calls this? Chronological chauvinism, I think?
    No, it isn't chauvenism, but merely seeking the avoidance of a form of sophistry predicated upon the building of fallacious moral equivalencies.

    When people indulge in their tu toque arguments comparing Christianity to Islam in order to defend the latter, they invariably utilize any of a number of fallacies. They either compare acts that are not equal in terms of moral repugnance, or they compare actions that are not equally prevalent , or they compare acts that do not arise within the same time frame.

    If you wish to compare Christianity to Islam within the framework of what their adherents do in the name of their religion, you need to establish what they do, how many do it, what they believe, how many believe it, the connection between the beliefs and the actions and the time they did it.

    We are all living in the same world. Using the cop out that some people did something centuries ago in order to defend actions in the here and now is just that -- a cop out.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

  3. #83
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,115

    Re: Which Religion is more "pushy?" Christianity or Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post


    *parties big time*

    I would have never imagined we'd come so far that anybody would justify and play apologist for the Crusades, Inquisition and Manifest Destiny. Wow ... just wow.

    firstly, i wouldn't say i am an apologist for the Inquisition; I simply point out the historical accuracy that it wasn't the bloodbath that people imagine it as. Sure there were bloody individual scenes, but I wouldn't put it as significantly worse than (say) lynching in America in the late 19th - early 20th century or current anti-Christian violence in Egypt.

    as far as the Crusades; yeah; Muslim forces had spent the past couple of centuries conquering Christian territory; and the Christians' decided to go win some of it back. Charles Martel didn't have to fight at Poitiers because the Islamic raiding force had gotten lost on the Hajj; they (having taken Spain) were thinking of invading France. Christian forces had to invade the Holy Land because it had been conquered from the Christian Byzantine empire. I'm not going to say I'm an apologist for them, or certainly for the bloodbaths that were involved in some of the individual campaigns; but to pull them out and pretend like they were some kind of Especially Evil Event In The History Of Warfare? please.

    thirdly, i don't see how pointing out that Manifest Destiny was an Americanist ideal more than a Christian one in any way turns one into an apologist for it. that's like saying that pointing out that a Ford F-150 is a six-cylinder makes you pro-4-cylinder.

  4. #84
    Sage
    Guy Incognito's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    12-02-17 @ 07:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    11,216

    Re: Which Religion is more "pushy?" Christianity or Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    as far as the Crusades; yeah; Muslim forces had spent the past couple of centuries conquering Christian territory; and the Christians' decided to go win some of it back. Charles Martel didn't have to fight at Poitiers because the Islamic raiding force had gotten lost on the Hajj; they (having taken Spain) were thinking of invading France. Christian forces had to invade the Holy Land because it had been conquered from the Christian Byzantine empire.
    Correction: The Roman Catholics in the west didn't care a whit for the Byzantine Christians; the crusaders regularly sacked Byzantine cities on the way to the holy land. Any assistance given by the Latins to the Greeks was just a flimsy pretext for a war of conquest.

  5. #85
    Professor
    other's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    VA
    Last Seen
    01-22-14 @ 11:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    1,473

    Re: Which Religion is more "pushy?" Christianity or Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Correction: The Roman Catholics in the west didn't care a whit for the Byzantine Christians; the crusaders regularly sacked Byzantine cities on the way to the holy land. Any assistance given by the Latins to the Greeks was just a flimsy pretext for a war of conquest.
    ...and what was the muslim pretext for the initial war of conquest against the byzantines?

    That the latin Christians had no special love for the Byzantines is beside the point anyway -- they did care that Jerusalem had been taken by muslims; it had been a major pilgrimage site for christians (both latin and eastern orthodox) for many centuries. Oh, and the latin christians also attacked other latin christian cities en route to the holy land (ie. Zemun, Hungary), such tactics were common in warfare during the period -- big armies had to eat... they weren't religiously motivated.
    Last edited by other; 01-18-11 at 01:34 PM.

  6. #86
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,115

    Re: Which Religion is more "pushy?" Christianity or Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Correction: The Roman Catholics in the west didn't care a whit for the Byzantine Christians; the crusaders regularly sacked Byzantine cities on the way to the holy land. Any assistance given by the Latins to the Greeks was just a flimsy pretext for a war of conquest.
    i've read a couple of accounts of those sackings; from what i've seen (which admittedly isn't authoritative) they seemed spawned by stupidity rather than anti-Byzantine sentiment ("they're wearing rags on their heads! they must be mohammeden!")

  7. #87
    Sage
    Guy Incognito's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    12-02-17 @ 07:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    11,216

    Re: Which Religion is more "pushy?" Christianity or Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by other View Post
    ...and what was the muslim pretext for the initial war of conquest against the byzantines?
    The Muslim conquest of the Holy Land had occurred over than 400 years before the first crusade. It was in no way a provocation to the Latin powers.

    Quote Originally Posted by other View Post
    .
    That the latin Christians had no special love for the Byzantines is beside the point anyway -- they did care that Jerusalem had been taken by muslims;
    Yes, Jerusalem, a city no Latin had any rightful claim to, had been taken four hundred years ago. Think that one over.


    Quote Originally Posted by other View Post
    .
    it had been a major pilgrimage site for christians (both latin and eastern orthodox) for many centuries.
    It is also a major pilgrimage site for many Muslims, so that's a wash.

    Quote Originally Posted by other View Post
    . Oh, and the latin christians also attacked other latin christian cities en route to the holy land (ie. Zemun, Hungary), such tactics were common in warfare during the period -- big armies had to eat... they weren't religiously motivated.
    So, more proof the Crusaders were assholes. But to draw from this that the Crusades "weren't religiously motivated" is absurd.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 01-18-11 at 01:39 PM.

  8. #88
    Too big to fail
    niftydrifty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Last Seen
    03-03-16 @ 03:20 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,725

    Re: Which Religion is more "pushy?" Christianity or Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    To find adequate atrocities that can be laid at Christendom's feet, the critics have to go back 500-900 years.
    Not even hardly. The bloodiest war in the history of man (WWII) was caused by someone who believed he was doing God's work, and he acquired help from a nation of Christians to do it.

    What we have to fight for is the necessary security for the existence and increase of our race and people, the subsistence of its children and the maintenance of our racial stock unmixed, the freedom and independence of the Fatherland; so that our people may be enabled to fulfill the mission assigned to it by the Creator.

    - Adolf Hitler
    I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.

    - Adolf Hitler
    To do justice to God and our own conscience, we have turned once more to the German Volk.

    - Adolf Hitler
    May divine providence bless us with enough courage and enough determination to perceive within ourselves this holy German space.

    - Adolf Hitler
    We don't ask the Almighty, 'Lord, make us free!" We want to be active, to work, to work together, so that when the hour comes that we appear before the Lord we can say to him: 'Lord, you see that we have changed.' The German people is no longer a people of dishonor and shame, of self-destructiveness and cowardice. No, Lord, the German people is once more strong in spirit, strong in determination, strong in the willingness to bear every sacrifice. Lord, now bless our battle and our freedom, and therefore our German people and fatherland.

    - Adolf Hitler
    I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord's work.

    - Adolf Hitler
    I am a Christian. And while I don't believe that Hitler was the same kind of a Christian that I am, or that most people are, or ever have been, similarly, Islamists are not the same kind of Muslims that most are. It's disappointing that the actions of extremist nutjobs get pinned on the whole religion. So here I am doing it to Christianity, in order to make a point about those that so ignorantly do it to Islam.
    Last edited by niftydrifty; 01-18-11 at 01:42 PM.
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=3227&dateline=1247527  127

  9. #89
    Sage
    Guy Incognito's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    12-02-17 @ 07:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    11,216

    Re: Which Religion is more "pushy?" Christianity or Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by niftydrifty View Post
    So here I am doing it to Christianity, in order to make a point about those that so ignorantly do it to Islam.
    Well said! It's interesting how these people will hate on Islam all day long for the acts of a small minority of violent criminals, but when examples of Christians behaving violently in the name of God get brought up, these same people bend over backwards to rationalize it and excuse it. It's an amazing disconnect.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 01-18-11 at 01:45 PM.

  10. #90
    Professor
    other's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    VA
    Last Seen
    01-22-14 @ 11:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    1,473

    Re: Which Religion is more "pushy?" Christianity or Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    The Muslim conquest of the Holy Land had occurred over than 400 years before the first crusade. It was in no way a provocation to the Latin powers.

    Yes, Jerusalem, a city no Latin had any rightful claim to, had been taken four hundred years ago. Think that one over.

    It is also a major pilgrimage site for many Muslims, so that's a wash.
    I guess it doesn't dawn on you to attampt to look at the issue from their perspective. Think that one over. Notice I wrote "they did care that Jerusalem had been taken by muslims." The direct provocation was stirred up by accounts of muslim attacks on christian pilgrims, they decided then that the city needed to be back in christian hands.

    So, more proof the Crusaders were assholes. But to draw from this that the Crusades "weren't religiously motivated" is absurd.
    Your claim that I said the Crusades "weren't religiously motivated" is absurd. I said the sack of the byzantine cities wasn't religiously motivated.
    Last edited by other; 01-18-11 at 01:54 PM.

Page 9 of 22 FirstFirst ... 789101119 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •