View Poll Results: Which Religion is more "pushy?" Christianity or Islam?

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Thread: Which Religion is more "pushy?" Christianity or Islam?

  1. #171
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    Re: Which Religion is more "pushy?" Christianity or Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    I look at early days of Christianity and the spread of the religion throughout Rome and Europe as two separate things. The spread of Christianity met a lot of resistance in Rome and then in Europe, and Europe wasn't completely converted until after the establishment of the Holy Roman Empire... which was after Rome fell of course.

    Inquisitions and persecution of European Pagans lasted well into the Medieval Era, and the slowest places to accept the religion in Europe was the North. The Catholic Church also sent crusaders to northern Europe, so even after the majority of Romans accepted the religion it was still spreading to Europe.

    I honestly don't think I am white washing the facts... I was always thinking about the spread of Christianity in these terms, not as you define it.

    By time the Romans became Chrsitians hundreds of years had passed.


    ... Yes that's true, but that doesn't mean I am being dishonest, because even though 100 years may have passed, the religion wasn't done spreading.

    The quote pretty much sums it up...
    I never said it was completely without violance... look VERY closely at the words I chose... they were chosen deliberately. However, you deny only in the face of the facts that the early centuries of the spread of Christianity was, in fact, largely peaceful, and this is in stark contrast with the early centuries of the spread of Islam, which was largely violent.
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  2. #172
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    Re: Which Religion is more "pushy?" Christianity or Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter View Post
    Source? What, another progressively educated person. Source History Actual.
    No source? Not surprise...
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    Re: Which Religion is more "pushy?" Christianity or Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    No source? Not surprise...
    Source for GENERAL KNOWLEDGE? Wait...you must be a progressive, RIGHT, you were not indoctrinated in history actual? Which is not a surprise. Of course the Printing press was not invented during this time period, The Pope did not make it illegal for a lay person to possess the Holy Bible...there were no Crusades nor Inquisitions directed by the Vatican during that time period, there was no Protestant Reformation, and the United States was not founded by that same protestant movement to escape Europe and Religious Persecution, and the 1st Amendment does not preclude the Central Government from ESTABLISHING a STATE RELIGION. All this is simply untrue because you are to lazy to read history? I have danced this dance before, regardless of the information presented...it will be deflected and the Circular Argumentation will do nothing but continue, because you do not wish to be enlightened you simply hate being proven WRONG. Pride is a wonderful thing...no?
    Last edited by Walter; 02-18-11 at 10:24 PM.

  4. #174
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    Re: Which Religion is more "pushy?" Christianity or Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter View Post
    Source for GENERAL KNOWLEDGE? Wait...you must be a progressive, RIGHT, you were not indoctrinated in history actual?
    Thanks for verifying my point...

    Now, care to answer my points that CATHOLICS did all of those things??? thanks for playing...
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    Re: Which Religion is more "pushy?" Christianity or Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Thanks for verifying my point...

    Now, care to answer my points that CATHOLICS did all of those things??? thanks for playing...
    I just did. There was no protestant reformation until the 16th century, the crusades occurred under Catholic direction from the Vatican in 11,12, and 13th Century. You do the math. The Printing Press was invented in the 15th Century by "Gutenberg", and the Holy Scriptures were translated into languages other than LATIN and into the King James English in 1604.

    But, simply because the general public did not have access to the truth found in the Holy Bible does not preclude that record from existing from the 1st century to date. Its simple, The Catholics use Dogma and Tradition to propagate Christianity while the Scriptures teach that it is the Word of God that builds faith, not the Church Hierarchy.

    Its a most easy thing to demonstrate through the historical record when certain Catholic Traditions began, with the major change being in 325 when the CHURCH and STATE were incorporated together. But the Scriptures were first perverted long before then, as per the warning contained in the scriptures themselves that such would happen (1 Tim. 4:1-3)

    The blessing of WATER before use did not begin until the 2nd century. The Separation of the clergy from the laity (members)..early 2nd century. This in spite of the Scriptural Fact that the Church that the Christ built did not have any separation as each member could approach the throne of God in prayers as each person was considered a Priest with the Christ being the High Priest that we confess our sins to as he stands as advocate between God and our sins (1 Peter 2:9-10).

    Special days being set aside for fasting which eventually began the practice of LENT -- 140 AD. Yet the actual Record in Scriptures tell us not to respect certain religious holidays or sabbath as that was the practice under the Old Law not the New (Col. 2:14-17). The wearing of Special Clothes by the Clergy did not begin until the 2nd Century, yet Christ Chastised the Jewish Clergy for doing the same thing, placing themselves above the people they served by marking their SPECIAL Identity with SPECIAL CLOTHES.

    The tradition of regional meeting between the clergy began in the 2nd century. Sprinkling used in the stead of WATER BAPTISM in direct contradiction of the SCRIPTURES began in 180 AD. Its a most difficult thing to bury yourself with Christ in a few drops of water. The beginning of MAKING THE SIGN OF THE CROSS during prayer late 2nd century. The dogma of teaching PURGATORY 230 AD.

    Making marriage by the Clergy illegal...3rd century. The first OFFICE OF BISHOP 3rd century. Easter was invented 325 AD. Confessing Sins to a priest 329 AD. The practice of CALLING Bishops from large cities ARCH BISHOPS 4th century. Monastic orders. 5th century (separation of certain orders of clergy from the public society). Christmast began in 360 AD. The doctrine of Inherited Sin began in the 400 AD. A Formal announcement that Roman Catholicism was the STATE RELIGION 360AD.

    Candles used used in worship as a sacred element 417 AD. Mary was declared the MOTHER OF GOD 470AD. The dogma of TRANSUBSTANTIATION (the tradition that has the elements of the mass becomes the literal body of the Christ 492 AD

    The anointing of the dead for spiritual forgiveness 528 AD. Gregory becomes the Archbishop of Rome and declares Rome the center of the universal church. 590 AD. The first official POPE, Boniface the 3rd accepts the title of POPE. The introduction of Organ Music was removed temporally 670 AD The organ was reintroduced in 775 and remains today.

    The Eastern Orthodox Church was formed in 1053 when the Pope (Leo IX) excommunicated Michael Cerularius 1053.

    Rosary introduced 1090. Sprinkling for ALL PEOPLE instead of some accepted. 1311. Laity does not partake of the CUP 1414. The dogma of the Immaculate Conception of Mary 1845. Finally the POPE is declared as GOD ON EARTH and his word stated to be INFALLIBLE 1870.

    A little history never hurts anyone.
    Last edited by Walter; 02-18-11 at 11:13 PM.

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    Re: Which Religion is more "pushy?" Christianity or Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter View Post
    And I demonstrated that you are WRONG. (not to be PROGRESSIVELY assumed to mean WRONG!!!!!) There is only one standard that calibrates the Christian Religion and that would be the Holy Bible, and no where can you find a declaration of converting anyone to the faith against their will.....nowhere. Are you suggesting that people are born with an innate faith in Christianity and that faith has not been translated from generation to generation by the content of the Holy Scriptures? Its absurd to blame Christianity for the wrongs preformed by man when there is nothing in the standard that accepts such an act as being righteous. While on the other hand its a most easy thing to point to the Holy book of Islam and see the contrasting difference between the two religions. Its a most simple thing....point to the Book, Chapter and Verse where anyone could even assume that Christianity is to be promoted by violence.....but on the other hand............


    Islam promotes a message in the Koran that suggests when any Muslim "thinks" they are being persecuted that it is the duty of the loyal Muslim to "...smite them on the neck until you have routed them..." (Surah 47:4), "Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you......slay the aggressors wherever you find them....fight them until PERSECUTION is no more" (persecution can be perceived as anything, one can be interpreted as being a persecutor for simply supporting the nation of Israel) -- Surah 2:190-194).

    WARFARE IS ORDAINED IN YOU.................(Surah 2: 216-217).

    One does not need a blindfold to take the COKE v PEPSI challenge, just "commonsense".
    As long as we're quoting holy books... "The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword: their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open."-Hosea 13:16 Oh, the bible says that you should just kill people who don't agree with you, that makes much more sense. And before you say that quote means something completely different, I'd like to remind you of Occam's Razor. That also gives me the right to dispute your Qur'an quotes, as having deeper meaning than what is apparent.

    “The anger of God rose against them, and he killed their strongest men; he struck down the finest of Israel's young men. But in spite of this, the people kept on sinning. They refused to believe in his miracles. So he ended their lives in failure and gave them years of terror. When God killed some of them, the rest finally sought him. They repented and turned to God.”-Psalms 78:31-34

    "I brought hunger to every city and famine to every town. But still you wouldn't return to me," says the LORD.
    "I kept the rain from falling when you needed it the most, ruining all your crops. I sent rain on one town but withheld it from another. Rain fell on one field, while another field withered away. People staggered from one town to another for a drink of water, but there was never enough. But still you wouldn't return to me," says the LORD.
    "I struck your farms and vineyards with blight and mildew. Locusts devoured all your fig and olive trees. But still you wouldn't return to me," says the LORD.
    "I sent plagues against you like the plagues I sent against Egypt long ago. I killed your young men in war and slaughtered all your horses. The stench of death filled the air! But still you wouldn't return to me," says the LORD.
    "I destroyed some of your cities, as I destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. Those of you who survived were like half-burned sticks snatched from a fire. But still you wouldn't return to me," says the LORD.”-Amos 4:6-11

    “Therefore, this is what the Sovereign Lord says: You people have behaved worse than your neighbors and have refused to obey my decrees and regulations. You have not even lived up to the standards of the nations around you. Therefore, I myself, the Sovereign Lord, am now your enemy. I will punish you publicly while all the nations watch. Because of your detestable idols, I will punish you like I have never punished anyone before or ever will again. Parents will eat their own children, and children will eat their parents. I will punish you and scatter to the winds the few who survive.”-Ezekiel 5:7-10

    “If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted.”-Leviticus 26:21-22

    "I brought hunger to every city and famine to every town. But still you wouldn't return to me," says the LORD.
    "I kept the rain from falling when you needed it the most, ruining all your crops. I sent rain on one town but withheld it from another. Rain fell on one field, while another field withered away. People staggered from one town to another for a drink of water, but there was never enough. But still you wouldn't return to me," says the LORD.
    "I struck your farms and vineyards with blight and mildew. Locusts devoured all your fig and olive trees. But still you wouldn't return to me," says the LORD.
    "I sent plagues against you like the plagues I sent against Egypt long ago. I killed your young men in war and slaughtered all your horses. The stench of death filled the air! But still you wouldn't return to me," says the LORD.
    "I destroyed some of your cities, as I destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. Those of you who survived were like half-burned sticks snatched from a fire. But still you wouldn't return to me," says the LORD.”-Amos 4:6-11


    It seems to me that God supports killing people, if people don't agree with him, or don't please him, or because he just feels like it. I think if God does it, it suggests it's good behavior. This is from my list of 40 ****ed up bible quotes (more to be added), by the way. http://www.debatepolitics.com/religi...ociety-16.html
    Last edited by Arcadius; 02-18-11 at 11:22 PM.
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  7. #177
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    Re: Which Religion is more "pushy?" Christianity or Islam?

    So, where did you cut and paste this from?

    Still didn't answer any of my points... now, why would that be? Still, no source for your "point" that the scriptires were forbidden to the laity?

    Not willing to declare failure on your part yet, but you are getting there...
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  8. #178
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    Re: Which Religion is more "pushy?" Christianity or Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadius View Post
    As long as we're quoting holy books... "The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword: their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open."-Hosea 13:16 Oh, the bible says that you should just kill people who don't agree with you, that makes much more sense. And before you say that quote means something completely different, I'd like to remind you of Occam's Razor. That also gives me the right to dispute your Qur'an quotes, as having deeper meaning than what is apparent.

    “The anger of God rose against them, and he killed their strongest men; he struck down the finest of Israel's young men. But in spite of this, the people kept on sinning. They refused to believe in his miracles. So he ended their lives in failure and gave them years of terror. When God killed some of them, the rest finally sought him. They repented and turned to God.”-Psalms 78:31-34

    "I brought hunger to every city and famine to every town. But still you wouldn't return to me," says the LORD.
    "I kept the rain from falling when you needed it the most, ruining all your crops. I sent rain on one town but withheld it from another. Rain fell on one field, while another field withered away. People staggered from one town to another for a drink of water, but there was never enough. But still you wouldn't return to me," says the LORD.
    "I struck your farms and vineyards with blight and mildew. Locusts devoured all your fig and olive trees. But still you wouldn't return to me," says the LORD.
    "I sent plagues against you like the plagues I sent against Egypt long ago. I killed your young men in war and slaughtered all your horses. The stench of death filled the air! But still you wouldn't return to me," says the LORD.
    "I destroyed some of your cities, as I destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. Those of you who survived were like half-burned sticks snatched from a fire. But still you wouldn't return to me," says the LORD.”-Amos 4:6-11

    “Therefore, this is what the Sovereign Lord says: You people have behaved worse than your neighbors and have refused to obey my decrees and regulations. You have not even lived up to the standards of the nations around you. Therefore, I myself, the Sovereign Lord, am now your enemy. I will punish you publicly while all the nations watch. Because of your detestable idols, I will punish you like I have never punished anyone before or ever will again. Parents will eat their own children, and children will eat their parents. I will punish you and scatter to the winds the few who survive.”-Ezekiel 5:7-10

    “If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted.”-Leviticus 26:21-22

    "I brought hunger to every city and famine to every town. But still you wouldn't return to me," says the LORD.
    "I kept the rain from falling when you needed it the most, ruining all your crops. I sent rain on one town but withheld it from another. Rain fell on one field, while another field withered away. People staggered from one town to another for a drink of water, but there was never enough. But still you wouldn't return to me," says the LORD.
    "I struck your farms and vineyards with blight and mildew. Locusts devoured all your fig and olive trees. But still you wouldn't return to me," says the LORD.
    "I sent plagues against you like the plagues I sent against Egypt long ago. I killed your young men in war and slaughtered all your horses. The stench of death filled the air! But still you wouldn't return to me," says the LORD.
    "I destroyed some of your cities, as I destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. Those of you who survived were like half-burned sticks snatched from a fire. But still you wouldn't return to me," says the LORD.”-Amos 4:6-11


    It seems to me that God supports killing people, if people don't agree with him, or don't please him, or because he just feels like it. I think if God does it, it suggests it's good behavior. This is from my list of 40 ****ed up bible quotes (more to be added), by the way. http://www.debatepolitics.com/religi...ociety-16.html
    Hey, you are preaching to the CHOIR, there is only one TRUE RELIGION....that which is found existing as a revelation from God in the Holy Scriptures. And why are you PASTING OLD MOSAIC LAW...when that law was drafted specifically for one nation, the nation of Biblical Israel (Deut. 4, 5). And you never mentioned that the LAW then was indeed an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, and these PEOPLE were being punished for BURNING CHILDREN they had stolen and enslaved to use as human sacrifices. The old law was nailed to the Cross of the Christ (Col. 2:14-17), we are abiding by the precepts established in the New Testament.
    Last edited by Walter; 02-18-11 at 11:38 PM.

  9. #179
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    Re: Which Religion is more "pushy?" Christianity or Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    So, where did you cut and paste this from?

    Still didn't answer any of my points... now, why would that be? Still, no source for your "point" that the scriptires were forbidden to the laity?

    Not willing to declare failure on your part yet, but you are getting there...
    I do not cut and paste. This came from documented HISTORY. Regardless of your opinion, your opinion does not preclude the truth from being THE TRUTH. If I use an external source, such is presented with a link.

  10. #180
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    Re: Which Religion is more "pushy?" Christianity or Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter View Post
    Hey, you are preaching to the CHOIR, there is only one TRUE RELIGION....that which is found existing as a revelation from God in the Holy Scriptures.
    You own the original documents?
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