• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Same sex marriage: what is it really?

What is same sex marriage?

  • Total voters
    62
Your Star said:
Really, SSM is only a matter of time, if only my generation woke up and voted.
Click to expand...

It is just a matter of time, which is why I think we should get it done and over with. On a legal perspective I think that SSM should be legal and recognized. On a personal level, however, I don't give a damn. I don't care who marries who, it's not my business. Don't infringe upon the rights of others, and don't involve me; that's all I ask. If you do those things, I'm OK with you doing anything your little heart desires.
 
Your Star said:
Really, SSM is only a matter of time, if only my generation woke up and voted.
Click to expand...

Agreed, I dont know what reality he lives in but ALL his examples have been disproved by HISTORY and facts he seems to ignore.
 
Your Star said:
Really, SSM is only a matter of time, if only my generation woke up and voted.
Click to expand...

that's how it's been since at least Mondale. as people age, get married, and have children, they tend to become more conservative. i suspect in many ways our generation will be even more so.
 
Centrist77 said:
Agreed, I dont know what reality he lives in but ALL his examples have been disproved by HISTORY and facts he seems to ignore.
Click to expand...

Yep, the rights of minorities would be a lost cause if left up to the majority.
 
Centrist77 said:
run cpwill ruuuun but you cant hide lmao
Click to expand...

if i was hiding i wouldn't exactly be in the thread, nor have let your star pull me into this side debate that detracts from the actual OP.

yes that same constitution of the PEOPLE that ruled over the MAJORITY in minority rights, womens rights and interracial marriage.
Click to expand...

no, you are confusing what was acually done through Constitutional amendment, legal statutory issuance, and Supreme Court ruling. the three are in no way all representative of a supermajority of the people expressed as such via the Constitution.

oooooooops huge flaw in you uhm ah logic?
Click to expand...

no, merely a flaw in your approach. you seem to have a race = sexuality assumption, and your arguments stem from the apparent belief that i do, too.
 
cpwill said:
that's how it's been since at least Mondale. as people age, get married, and have children, they tend to become more conservative.
Click to expand...

Economically, I would probably say so, but socially no. People who supported social issues such as integration, and the Civil Rights movement, didn't change their ways, and become against those things once they became older. The same will happen with SSM, my generation supports it, and once we become an important influence in the political scene, it will become law, (if not sooner than that), and it will not be a liberal, conservative issue, it will just be a fact of life. Just like integration is today.
 
Your Star said:
Yep, the rights of minorities would be a lost cause if left up to the majority.
Click to expand...

majority where? of what? you realize that that Bill of Rights (and all subsequent Amendments) is, in fact, something that was left up to a (super)majority?
 
cpwill said:
:shrug: actually Chrisitan were at the forefront of all these things. particuarly Civil Rights. which makes sense; as the notion of the fundamental equality of man is a Christian concept.
Click to expand...

Do you have selective memory or something? What fantasy world are you from.
Yes the Christians that you CHOOSE to remember LMAO

There were also PLENTY of Christians AGAINST all those things and used the same bible for their reasons.

Now unlike irrational people I dont blame Christians or GROUP them all together, hell im supposed to be one Im just saying your statement is only HALF true because many Christians were not so you point is MOOT and still does NOT address any questions, its merely a deflection.



cpwill said:
odd, isn't it, that that is precisely what the "anti" homosexual movement people also say. what wonderful Founding Ideals we have that everyone seeks to claim them while denying them to their opponents.

mind you, that's also part and parcel of the Fundamental Assumption fallacy....but hey :), it's common enough.

you might get a kick out of reading something posted elsewhere (i entitled it my resignation from the Religious Right)
Click to expand...

more of NOTHING that address the questions and realities you choose to dodge and ignore




cpwill said:
indeed i might not; as many Christians around the world are not. i wouldn't even say that we are lucky, I would say that we are blessed and that with that comes responsibility to A) use those freedoms wisely and B) see to it that others come to gain the freedoms that we have been given.
Click to expand...

WOW?????????
except gays obviously LMAO wow you are blind to you own hypocrisy


cpwill said:
if either of our rights were being attacked that would indeed be very different from the homosexual marriage debate.
Click to expand...

Wake up! "OUR" rights are being attacked, "our" AMERICAN rights, gays are AMERICANS and I fight the good fight with them, you obviously choose not to and would let others repress and discriminate against them.

Im sorry but thats the REALITY no matter what spin you choose to put on it. :)

Now, you want to answer my questions or not :D
 
Last edited:
Your Star said:
Economically, I would probably say so, but socially no.
Click to expand...

socially as well. the abortion issue, for example, has been trending the pro-life movement's way for a few years, now. whether gay marriage follows the same path i don't know; i only know that the trend is against it rather than for it.
 
cpwill said:
majority where? of what? you realize that that Bill of Rights (and all subsequent Amendments) is, in fact, something that was left up to a (super)majority?
Click to expand...

Majority vote, if people voted on integration of schools when the SCOTUS voted on it, then it would have failed miserably.
 
cpwill said:
socially as well. the abortion issue, for example, has been trending the pro-life movement's way for a few years, now. whether gay marriage follows the same path i don't know; i only know that the trend is against it rather than for it.
Click to expand...

Look at any poll, and it will say that young people are for SSM. And just because someone gets older, doesn't mean that they will suddenly change against it. Just like people for the Civil rights movement didn't suddenly become racist, and against it when they got older. Society changes, and our society has become more, and more socially liberal for years. You can't deny that.
 
cpwill said:
if i was hiding i wouldn't exactly be in the thread, nor have let your star pull me into this side debate that detracts from the actual OP.
Click to expand...

Talk all you want yet you kep dodging the questions :D



cpwill said:
no, you are confusing what was acually done through Constitutional amendment, legal statutory issuance, and Supreme Court ruling. the three are in no way all representative of a supermajority of the people expressed as such via the Constitution.
Click to expand...

WRONG, what that is, is YOU trying to back pedal and reformat and restate you blanket statement of the constitution if for the people and for the super majority of them which you are in fact wrong, it does not have to be



cpwill said:
no, merely a flaw in your approach. you seem to have a race = sexuality assumption, and your arguments stem from the apparent belief that i do, too.
Click to expand...

WRONG that would you ASSuming. I see race and gender and sexuality has what the in fact are, EQUAL rights, You are free to see them each how you want, I have no belief or care how YOU see them because I know what they are. :D
 
Last edited:
Your Star said:
Majority vote, if people voted on integration of schools when the SCOTUS voted on it, then it would have failed miserably.
Click to expand...
same with interracial marriage

dont have stats on minority rights or women rights but my GUESS is they follow suit
 
Last edited:
Centrist77 said:
Do you have selective memory or something? What fantsy world are you from.
Click to expand...

:) actually i have a degree in history.

There were also PLENTY of christians AGAINST all those things and used the same bible for their reasons.
Click to expand...

actually the vast majority of humanity is against all those things; and has been generally since the beginning of time. the 19th Century West was the first major culture in human history - for example - to do away with Slavery. the exceptions are the story, and always we seem to find Christianity at the forefront of the push for human freedom and dignity. Christians owned slaves? everyone owned slaves; only Christians ever gave them up. Christians mistreated non socially dominant groups? Everyone mistreated non socially doiminant groups; only Christians have ever faced beatings and worse to stand with them. The genders were considered as unequal as the ethnicities? Always the genders have been as inequal as the ethnicities, only the Christians ever argued that in the truest sense of our being there was no difference between male or female, jew or greek. it is no coincidence that the abolition and civil rights movements both came out of the churches.

Now unlike irratinoal people I dont blame chrsitians or GROUP them all together, hell im supposed to be one
Click to expand...

you are supposed to be one? you are? you are not?

more of NOTHING that adress the questions and relities you choose to dodge and ignore

WOW?????????
except gays obviously LMAO wow you are blind to you own hypocrisy
Click to expand...

:sighs: since i don't believe that there is such a thing as the positive right to force the people to issue you a marriage license irrespective of whether or not you meet the qualifications, your point remains based upon a fallacious assumption. if i argued that homosexuals (for example) did not have the right to petition or argue in the public square to have the qualifications changed - THAT would be hypocritical.

Wake up! "OUR" rights are bieing attacked, "our" AMERICAN rights, gays are AMERICANS and I fight the good fight with them, you obviously choose not to and would let others repress and discriminate against them.
Click to expand...

odd, then, isn't it, that you are the one who feels the need to be abusive.

Im sorry but thats the REALITY no matter what spin you choose to put on it. :)

Now, you want to answer my questions or not :D
Click to expand...

in fact i do not. you are a most disagreeable person to discuss this with. Your Star disagrees with me easily as strongly as yourself (perhaps more) but at least she keeps it civil and feels no need to engage in personal attacks; despite the fact that this issue undoubtedly cuts to that which is extremely important to her.
 
Your Star said:
Majority vote, if people voted on integration of schools when the SCOTUS voted on it, then it would have failed miserably.
Click to expand...

as i said, they made the wrong decision for the right reasons. with the exception of the doll research; which generally did not say at what SCOTUS drew from it.
 
Your Star said:
Look at any poll, and it will say that young people are for SSM. And just because someone gets older, doesn't mean that they will suddenly change against it. Just like people for the Civil rights movement didn't suddenly become racist, and against it when they got older. Society changes, and our society has become more, and more socially liberal for years. You can't deny that.
Click to expand...

and yet people have become more pro-life. i agree it will be interesting to see which one of those trends dominates the homosexual-marriage bit. i tend to suspect you are right but for reasons you fail to identify; marriage as a whole has been discredited for our generation.
 
Your Star said:
Majority vote, if people voted on integration of schools when the SCOTUS voted on it, then it would have failed miserably.
Click to expand...

majority of WHOM. the early late 19th Century, for example, contained plenty of evidence that the SuperMajority of Americans who voted for the 14th Amendment saw it as desegregating government institutions.
 
cpwill said:
and yet people have become more pro-life. i agree it will be interesting to see which one of those trends dominates the homosexual-marriage bit. i tend to suspect you are right but for reasons you fail to identify; marriage as a whole has been discredited for our generation.
Click to expand...

Link? And generally the new generation is more socially liberal than the last. That encompasses all social issues.
 
cpwill said:
majority of WHOM. the early late 19th Century, for example, contained plenty of evidence that the SuperMajority of Americans who voted for the 14th Amendment saw it as desegregating government institutions.
Click to expand...

Majority of the people when the ruling was made.
 
cpwill said:
:) actually i have a degree in history.
Click to expand...
well thats embrassing for you then



cpwill said:
actually the vast majority of humanity is against all those things; and has been generally since the beginning of time. the 19th Century West was the first major culture in human history - for example - to do away with Slavery. the exceptions are the story, and always we seem to find Christianity at the forefront of the push for human freedom and dignity. Christians owned slaves? everyone owned slaves; only Christians ever gave them up. Christians mistreated non socially dominant groups? Everyone mistreated non socially doiminant groups; only Christians have ever faced beatings and worse to stand with them. The genders were considered as unequal as the ethnicities? Always the genders have been as inequal as the ethnicities, only the Christians ever argued that in the truest sense of our being there was no difference between male or female, jew or greek. it is no coincidence that the abolition and civil rights movements both came out of the churches.
Click to expand...

ho hum more of nothing




cpwill said:
you are supposed to be one? you are? you are not?
Click to expand...
well my church is :D



cpwill said:
:sighs: since i don't believe that there is such a thing as the positive right to force the people to issue you a marriage license irrespective of whether or not you meet the qualifications, your point remains based upon a fallacious assumption. if i argued that homosexuals (for example) did not have the right to petition or argue in the public square to have the qualifications changed - THAT would be hypocritical.
Click to expand...

Translation: You have a BS hollow excuse for your hypocrisy.
Heres a question if you hade to vote for gay rights tomorrow and gay marriage would you vote to allow it or disallow it.



cpwill said:
odd, then, isn't it, that you are the one who feels the need to be abusive.
Click to expand...

abusive? LMAO hahahahahahahahaha

why cause I dont let you question dodge, call BS on you, point out you inaccuracies in your logic and dont buy your spin?

then yes im abusive to you :D



cpwill said:
in fact i do not. you are a most disagreeable person to discuss this with. Your Star disagrees with me easily as strongly as yourself (perhaps more) but at least she keeps it civil and feels no need to engage in personal attacks; despite the fact that this issue undoubtedly cuts to that which is extremely important to her.
Click to expand...

Oh yes I personally attacked you tons:roll:, my apologies if your that thin skinned for someone that wants to discriminate against people, deny them equal rights and act like they have no right to say anything about it. :D

Its also very important to me and should be to everyone who is against discrimination.

By the way you don't want to answer the questions because you cant and know you will be further exposed.
 
cpwill said:
and yet people have become more pro-life. i agree it will be interesting to see which one of those trends dominates the homosexual-marriage bit. i tend to suspect you are right but for reasons you fail to identify; marriage as a whole has been discredited for our generation.
Click to expand...

I don't think the pro-life comparison really works. One of the things I believe works toward gay acceptance is more exposure to gays. Back in the 70's, almost no one knew any one who was openly gay, so it was easy to think the worst about them. Now, most people know gay people, and it is harder to make those same faulty assumptions.

Younger people are more open to new ideas, and have been around gays more, and as such are more accepting of gays and I don't see that changing. It's not a political philosophy that is up to re-evaluation with age, it's about whether people are comfortable with gays.
 
Your Star said:
Majority of the people when the ruling was made.
Click to expand...

people of what? the nation? the state? there is room to argue that the supermajority of the nation meant to desegregate government facilities (which would include public schools) as part and parcel of the 14th Amendment; as that is what they set about to doing before the Supreme Court ruling reversed them.
 
Last edited:
Last edited:
Centrist77 said:
well thats embrassing for you then
Click to expand...

not really. it was from a fairly decent college and has served me well; though admittedly it prepared me better for my masters' program than for most professions (though I was fortunate to find one where it did).

ho hum more of nothing
Click to expand...

:roll: is that sort of your way of saying you have no response?

well my church is
Click to expand...

which means nothing. you said you were "supposed" to be a Christian. is this your parents church and you are obligated to go? did you put this duty on yourself?

Translation: You have a BS hollow excuse for your hypocrisy.
Click to expand...

do you support the right of children to marry? why? do you hate children? why do you support the right of gays to marry, but not children? your hypocracy rings so hollow.....

Heres a question if you hade to vote for gay rights tomorrow and gay marriage would you vote to allow it or disallow it.
Click to expand...

full gay rights. every American should have equal treatment before the law. keep marriage defined as it is.

abusive?
Click to expand...

yes. you seek to belittle presumably because you haven't actually thought very deeply about this issue, and need to cover. unfortunately, it sort of just makes you look.... childish.

Its also very important to me and should be to everyone who is against discrimination.
Click to expand...

:) says the person who hates children.

did it ever occur to you that perhaps well meaning men and women might actually disagree?

By the way you don't want to answer the questions because you cant and know you will be further exposed.
Click to expand...

:lol: alright, what question am i so afraid of? :)
 
Last edited:
Redress said:
I don't think the pro-life comparison really works. One of the things I believe works toward gay acceptance is more exposure to gays. Back in the 70's, almost no one knew any one who was openly gay, so it was easy to think the worst about them. Now, most people know gay people, and it is harder to make those same faulty assumptions.
Click to expand...

perhaps our differing predictions here stem also from our differing assumptions of the issue at hand; with you seeking out the "civil rights" parallel and myself seeking out the "sexual issue" parallel. i think in particular, though, when people marry and have children they tend to lose their tendency towards support of homosexual marriage; though I admit off hand I have no data to back up my presumption.

does anyone have a good breakdown of the voting records from the States that have put Homosexual Marriage on the ballot?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom