View Poll Results: What is same sex marriage?

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  • A special right

    109 56.77%
  • Equal protection

    62 32.29%
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    21 10.94%
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Thread: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

  1. #951
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    So we should judge all black people by gang bangers? All gay people by those who do the parade? Sorry blanket judgments don't work.
    Gangbangers are a small minority of black people (and are actually found in many other racial groups as well). Gays who are indecent in public (since not all those in gay pride parades are actually indecent in public) are a small minority of gay people as a whole (and, again, indecent straight people are out there too).

    Polygamy marriages where the women are being oppressed and/or abused and not given all the same rights as the husband are the majority of polygamous marriages. The small minority would be group marriages and/or any polygamous marriage where the wife/wives has the same rights and is treated the same as the husband/husbands, under the laws of the religion or the government where such marriages are legal.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  2. #952
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Since we can't truly discriminate against a "number" of people involved in a marriage, then there is no "separate but equal". There is no equal for everyone that might be involved in a polygamous marriage. You show me a way to guarantee everyone actually can be equal (and that means everyone), then it will work.
    I don't have to show anything, although it would not be that hard, I mean really.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Also, then you must agree that those same sex couples who are/get married in a religious ceremony in the US now are also being discriminated against based on their religion, as well as their sex. Good to know that you now agree that same sex couples deserve to be in legal marriages.
    But discrimination is OK as long as I you or I agree with it for whatever reason. So this argument has no validity at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  3. #953
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Gangbangers are a small minority of black people (and are actually found in many other racial groups as well). Gays who are indecent in public (since not all those in gay pride parades are actually indecent in public) are a small minority of gay people as a whole (and, again, indecent straight people are out there too).

    Polygamy marriages where the women are being oppressed and/or abused and not given all the same rights as the husband are the majority of polygamous marriages.
    I assume you have proof of this? I mean no place could I find anything that said women are being repressed because of polygamy. Now it may be because of government or even religion, but polygamy on it's own is not responsible.

    So no go.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The small minority would be group marriages and/or any polygamous marriage where the wife/wives has the same rights and is treated the same as the husband/husbands, under the laws of the religion or the government where such marriages are legal.
    Again polygamy is not the cause or issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  4. #954
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I don't have to show anything, although it would not be that hard, I mean really.



    But discrimination is OK as long as I you or I agree with it for whatever reason. So this argument has no validity at all.
    Discrimination is OK, legally speaking, as long as there is a valid reason for it based on the rules of scrutiny of the 14th Amendment. That is what is being dealt with here. So if you want to claim that polygamy falls under the base of religious discrimination because those in certain religions can practice polygamy (although it is almost always polygyny that their religions allow, not polygamy as a whole), then it would hold true that those in certain religions also "practice" same sex marriage (they allow it to happen and some probably even teach that sex outside of a marriage is a sin, even among homosexuals). So both would fit into that level of scrutiny, and would both have to be judged under the strictest level of scrutiny.

    Now, I don't believe either could be judged under this level, since the government not giving legal recognition for either of these marriages does not prevent someone from practicing their religion. There is really no part of the religion or practice of the religion that not recognizing such marriages affects.

    So, if we null the religious discrimination argument (since, like I said, it has to be either used for both types of marriage or neither), then that leaves same sex marriage at the scrutiny level for sex (middle tier) and polygamy at the scrutiny level for number of participants (which can only be lowest tier). The arguments for and against SSM and polygamy are not the same arguments in their entirety. At the legal level, same sex marriage has a much better argument for its benefits and the amount of effect that it will have on our current society than polygamy does for those same things.

    You seem to believe that the entire argument for same sex marriage is equality. This just isn't true. It is one of the main reasons (still, not the only one) that many support SSM, along with benefits to children and for the couple itself. But the arguments themselves are much more in depth.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #955
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Discrimination is OK, legally speaking, as long as there is a valid reason for it based on the rules of scrutiny of the 14th Amendment. That is what is being dealt with here. So if you want to claim that polygamy falls under the base of religious discrimination because those in certain religions can practice polygamy (although it is almost always polygyny that their religions allow, not polygamy as a whole), then it would hold true that those in certain religions also "practice" same sex marriage (they allow it to happen and some probably even teach that sex outside of a marriage is a sin, even among homosexuals). So both would fit into that level of scrutiny, and would both have to be judged under the strictest level of scrutiny.
    I am not talking about SSM. How often do I have to tell you this? I am talking about polygamy and don't care how it does or will affect SSM, OK?

    Don't care why someone is being discriminated against, just know according to you and everyone else it is OK as long as you agree with the reasoning. Makes it no less discrimination of course.

    I will say this...

    Out of all the people who posted you are the only one that made a really good case at any point. To bad you ignored it and just block posted.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 01-20-11 at 12:33 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  6. #956
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I am not talking about SSM. How often do I have to tell you this? I am talking about polygamy and don't care how it does or will affect SSM, OK?

    Don't care why someone is being discriminated against, just know according to you and everyone else it is OK as long as you agree with the reasoning. Makes it no less discrimination of course.

    I will say this...

    Out of all the people who posted you are the only one that made a really good case at any point. To bad you ignored it and just block posted.
    This thread is about SSM. That means that your arguments should probably be focused on SSM. The point was brought up about polygamy being discrimination, and why weren't SSM advocates fighting for polygamy along with SSM.

    If you would like to discuss just polygamy and whether it should or shouldn't be legal without references to SSM, then it should probably be done in another thread.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  7. #957
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Can't it be both?

  8. #958
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Good Guy View Post
    Can't it be both?
    Not separately when the thread is specifically about SSM. Polygamy can be discussed, but it really should be in some relation to SSM.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  9. #959
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Here is a post the I wrote about 2 years ago, identifying why polygamy is completely dissimilar to GM and why it should not be lega:
    Link to page, please, otherwise you're hiding the responses you got from that post.

  10. #960
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    When it comes to adult individuals (consensual), all social unions are a right.
    'The whole universe is going to die!'

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