View Poll Results: What is same sex marriage?

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  • A special right

    109 56.77%
  • Equal protection

    62 32.29%
  • Other

    21 10.94%
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Thread: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

  1. #711
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    It is exactly the same issue. Either you are for personal freedom or you are not, right? I mean Ikari whom I was referring to said this many times. I don't see you correcting him?
    Are you going to address the points or not?

    Not too hard to see what I was saying. I know what others have said, I want to know your views on how discrimination laws should apply overall. Should they apply to just those that you think they should, or should it apply to everyone?


    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    This pretty much sums up your post. It is OK as long as you agree with it.

    No problem.
    Got context?

    I specifically stated that any discrimination should be have a rational basis. Here are some examples. Not allowing women to serve in combat units. Rational basis is that the benefits (fairness, greater opportunity for women, more people to be in those positions) are outweighed by the many drawbacks (men taught to protect women, women are inherently weaker (although some could do the job), separate facilities in the field would cause issues). Discrimination within jobs based on certain disabilities. If a person cannot do the job, then they should not be able to claim discrimination based on their disability. A person without an arm cannot lift boxes and/or other heavy objects. It's just how it is.

    Now, you need to show an actual rational reason to discriminate against same sex couples when it comes to marriage, as it specifically relates to marriage and the discrimination based on the genders of those involved.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  2. #712
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    So it is freedom that a private company can't say who they hire or a school who it lets in? I mean it is a fairly big list including imminent domain now for private interests etc.

    That is also an example and a real world example. In the end it is still my opinion vs many others and not really anything more.

    Until we can see into the future, we can't know what will be the effects. So we take a guess.
    True, you have to take a guess. But you need proof to actually infringe upon the rights of others with government force. So I guess we're at the stage where you can't come up with legitimate reasons why to stop it; thus we should allow it and see what happens. Once a measurement is taken, we can say more definitely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    #1 This has nothing to do with me liking or disliking gays. I don't care if someone is gay or not. I judge people by their character, not their sexual preference.
    It is when you claim I'm trying to use government force to get others to accept your interpretation of what marriage should be. Which is what you said. You said, I'm trying to use government force to push acceptance. In that case, it is up to what you want. BTW, you are the one using government force to push your interpretation of what marriage should be. I'll let the individual decide for themselves what marriage should be. And if you don't think gay marriage is what marriage is, then don't gay marry. Simple as that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    #2 I did not say you have not dealt with it head on. My point is you keep saying the same things over and over again (worded differently in some cases) that I have already responded to directly in previous posts. I get bored going over the same things over and over again.
    You said a deflected, deflection tactics are not addressing points head on. You have not responded DIRECTLY IN PREVIOUS POSTS my dismantling of your "proof" against gay marriage. All YOU did was to say "that's your opinion" and run away. You never ONCE addressed the points I took apart. You say the same things over and over again because all you can say over and over again is "that's your opinion" and run away. You never provide anything concrete, you never defend your arguments. You make supposition and assumption and then pretend that's a valid argument to excuse government force. That's all you've done. Don't sit there and pretend you've made some all inclusive argument rooted on the rights of the individual and through rational thought. You've done nothing of the sort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    #3 I am not saying and have not said anything about gays facing legal consequences because they are gay. Where the hell did you come up with that???
    You are making them face legal consequences for them being gay. Gay people want to marry same sex, just like straight people want to marry opposite sex. There is a contract called the Marriage License which legally holds that agreement and comes with a multitude of privilege and ability because of it. People have the right to contract. You wish to infringe upon that right of contract. You wish to say gay people cannot engage in that contract the way they want because of the way they want to engage in it, i.e. same sex marriage. You think it's wrong. So you will use government force against that right, you will prevent them from legally having a recognized marriage and legally from being able to enjoy all the privilege and ability the Marriage License grants. This is because the innate way in which gay people would act and marry is a way you don't like and thus you will make them face legal consequences. Those legal consequences being the inability to have their union legally recognized. Can you not see what you even call for? At least be honest for God's sake.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I am saying marriage should not be redefined for the sake of homosexuality, polygamy or incest etc. It should not be for any reason.
    Which is your OPINION, and from conversation firmly rooted in your religious beliefs. But your OPINION does not make proper basis for LEGAL LAW. Those are two different things. If you want to use your OPINION to create LAW; then you have to show PROOF. And proof is not assumption and supposition, it is factual, concrete, and measurable. Until you can produce that proof, your call for the oppression of the rights of others is a form of tyranny.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    So please stop with the deflecting garbage as it is not the case.
    None of it was garbage, it all came from you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I have been a team player in one form or another all my life including a majority of governmental groups. I think I have greater incite (purely anecdotal for certain) on the affects of changes to large groups as I have seen it good and bad.
    Psst...insight is what you were looking for. And no, I don't think you do. I think you have your predetermined ideals and morals and want to force the rest of us into that mold. I have seen no other indication that you desire something else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    So now you are the judge of what a "real" conservative is? Sorry can't agree with that.
    Yes, real conservatives knew small government, proper roles of government, and why it was to be restrained. They didn't use socialistic arguments like "greater good". They used rights and liberties. There's a lot you won't agree with me on, but that just makes you wrong on a lot of counts.

    As I said before, this comes down to resolve for freedom. Some people have it and will take the consequences. Others don't and wish to impose their own morality and definitions upon the rest of us.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  3. #713
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I am completely bored with this. I have repeated myself way to many times to continue. Most of what you will ask or try and refute has already been answered so..

    Have a good one and God bless.
    Haha, this is how I feel about this issue right now too. Except you know, from the opposite view point. I guess some times people just won't agree.
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Now, you need to show an actual rational reason to discriminate against same sex couples when it comes to marriage, as it specifically relates to marriage and the discrimination based on the genders of those involved.
    This is exactly what I mean. I have done this many MANY times in this thread and others. So that is that, look it up I am going to play with my parrot for a bit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    This is exactly what I mean. I have done this many MANY times in this thread and others. So that is that, look it up I am going to play with my parrot for a bit.
    And this is where we will never agree, what you think is rationale, and reasonable reasons to deny SSM, I, and others don't think that they are reasonable, and rationale. It's simple really.
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    I tend to view the issue as a political payoff for support of the democratic party and it's use of identity politics. Why didn't you include that as an option?
    Because that would fall under one of the answers.
    "Myths and legends die hard in America. We love them for the extra dimension they provide, the illusion of near-infinite possibility to erase the narrow confines of most men's reality. Weird heroes and mould-breaking champions exist as living proof to those who need it that the tyranny of 'the rat race' is not yet final." - Hunter S. Thompson

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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Civil unions is equal protection. The same benefits straight couples have should be afforded to them.

    Marriage is a religious institution at its root. If Gays want civil unions, fair enough. But marriage is religious domain and if the religious do not want to let them in. They should accept it, be happy with civil unions and move on.
    So you're worried about semantics?
    "Myths and legends die hard in America. We love them for the extra dimension they provide, the illusion of near-infinite possibility to erase the narrow confines of most men's reality. Weird heroes and mould-breaking champions exist as living proof to those who need it that the tyranny of 'the rat race' is not yet final." - Hunter S. Thompson

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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    And this is where we will never agree, what you think is rationale, and reasonable reasons to deny SSM, I, and others don't think that they are reasonable, and rationale. It's simple really.
    And this is where we will never agree, what you think is rationale, and reasonable reasons to institute SSM, I, and others don't think that they are reasonable, and rationale. It's simple really.

    Yes, yes it is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    You mean by forcing the issue on the american people whether they support it or not. Pity.
    How would it force you to do anything? You have said this in numerous threads, explain.
    "Myths and legends die hard in America. We love them for the extra dimension they provide, the illusion of near-infinite possibility to erase the narrow confines of most men's reality. Weird heroes and mould-breaking champions exist as living proof to those who need it that the tyranny of 'the rat race' is not yet final." - Hunter S. Thompson

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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    Equal protection, why should men be allowed to marry women, but women can't.
    Would you mind if we used your question to play some silly games? 'Cuz I like silly games, but if you don't want to play that's fine too.

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