View Poll Results: What is same sex marriage?

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  • A special right

    109 56.77%
  • Equal protection

    62 32.29%
  • Other

    21 10.94%
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Thread: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

  1. #701
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    How are Civil Unions(with the same legal standing as marriage) different than marriage?
    Gosh I know. Those whiney blacks had the exact same drinking fountains too. Who cares that they couldn't use the same ones?
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  2. #702
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    How are Civil Unions(with the same legal standing as marriage) different than marriage?
    Its not, is just a cover to be dishonest.

    Currently Civil Unions are not like a marriage overall. There have been civil unions that LOST in court cases to family members on decisions of property, money and health. The Civil Union was deemed NOT a marriage so therefore not as binding etc.

    Secondly and Im not saying EVERY person who is against gay marriage is like this but there are many. Currently I could marry my truck without the law involved of course and nobody would cry. Nobody would cry foul or about the BS sanctity excuse. Also I could get married tomorrow LEGALLY by anybody with a license without RELIGION and most people wouldn't cry about that either.

    Its a crock, its just to TRY and validate their oppressive wants and a mask a cover what they really want to do and thats to discriminate against fellow Americans and their freedoms and rights, nothing else.
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  3. #703
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelzie View Post
    Gosh I know. Those whiney blacks had the exact same drinking fountains too. Who cares that they couldn't use the same ones?
    Exactly a name change can EASILY be argued discrimination.
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  4. #704
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Dude that is a load. You said it will not hurt society or probably will not, I said it would and showed why.
    And I dismantled all of that suppossition and assumption. I went through point by point and showed why you're full of poo, even referencing reality when all you did was make silly claims about your 1st amendment rights being infringed upon. But you're the one that wants to use government force based on supposition. This isn't us sitting around arguing whether or not the Pats will win the Super Bowl. You can say that I'm "using conjecture and supposition"; but I'm not the one trying to use government force against the rights and liberties of others. Since YOU want to do that YOU have to have something better than suppossition and assumption. You need something based on measurement. You said you had proof, I have not seen it. Proof is not a list of crazy propaganda and assumptions. It has to have measurement in there somewhere.

    Face it, whenever you've been asked for anything concrete, you've deflected.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Get over the "personal freedom" crap as well. Lot of things have been taken away by the government over the years for the sake of society, rather than the individual.
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Anyone else see the irony of this coming out of a "conservative"?
    Last edited by Ikari; 01-11-11 at 11:37 AM.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  5. #705
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    And I dismantled all of that suppossition and assumption. I went through point by point and showed why you're full of poo, even referencing reality when all you did was make silly claims about your 1st amendment rights being infringed upon.
    No, you presented opposing opinion. Here is the link....

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1059202063

    The only thing dismantled here is that somehow based on opinion your argument is more valid than another opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    But you're the one that wants to use government force based on supposition. This isn't us sitting around arguing whether or not the Pats will win the Super Bowl. You can say that I'm "using conjecture and supposition"; but I'm not the one trying to use government force against the rights and liberties of others. Since YOU want to do that YOU have to have something better than suppossition and assumption. You need something based on measurement. You said you had proof, I have not seen it. Proof is not a list of crazy propaganda and assumptions. It has to have measurement in there somewhere.
    I am not using government force for anything. You are trying to use government force to get others to accept your interpretation of what marriage should be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Face it, whenever you've been asked for anything concrete, you've deflected.
    Only when I have already answered the question ohhh around 30 times already. So I say go back and read or do a search. Not my fault you did not see it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Anyone else see the irony of this coming out of a "conservative"?
    So you see it as ironic that conservative people would support the values of current society? And want to enforce those we see as a benefit?
    Last edited by Black Dog; 01-11-11 at 12:01 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  6. #706
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    No, you presented opposing opinion. Here is the link....

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1059202063

    The only thing dismantled here is that somehow based on opinion your argument is more valid than another opinion.
    And it was taken apart using real world examples. We don't regulated the KKK, tell them what they can or can't say, just because we recognized equal rights for black people. All the stuff in that list was conjecture, suppostition and assumption.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I am not using government force for anything. You are trying to use government force to get others to accept your interpretation of what marriage should be.

    Face it, whenever you've been asked for anything concrete, you've deflected.
    No I haven't, I've dealt with everthing head on. I'm not trying to use government force. I'm not saying you should be fined if you speak out against same sex marriage, I'm not saying you should face ANY legal consequence for not liking gays. You are the one who is saying that gay people should face legal consequence because they are gay. So don't be stupid, quit using this horribly ill thought out deflect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    So you see it as ironic that conservative people would support the values of current society? And want to enforce those we see as a benefit?
    I see irony of pushing "greater good" arguments and societal concerns over properly restrained government coming from "conservatives". A real conservative once knew the proper limits of government, they didn't use socialist arguments and basically say "**** rights, it's for the good of society" arguments.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #707
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    And it was taken apart using real world examples. We don't regulated the KKK, tell them what they can or can't say, just because we recognized equal rights for black people. All the stuff in that list was conjecture, suppostition and assumption.
    So it is freedom that a private company can't say who they hire or a school who it lets in? I mean it is a fairly big list including imminent domain now for private interests etc.

    That is also an example and a real world example. In the end it is still my opinion vs many others and not really anything more.

    Until we can see into the future, we can't know what will be the effects. So we take a guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No I haven't, I've dealt with everthing head on. I'm not trying to use government force. I'm not saying you should be fined if you speak out against same sex marriage, I'm not saying you should face ANY legal consequence for not liking gays. You are the one who is saying that gay people should face legal consequence because they are gay. So don't be stupid, quit using this horribly ill thought out deflect.
    #1 This has nothing to do with me liking or disliking gays. I don't care if someone is gay or not. I judge people by their character, not their sexual preference.

    #2 I did not say you have not dealt with it head on. My point is you keep saying the same things over and over again (worded differently in some cases) that I have already responded to directly in previous posts. I get bored going over the same things over and over again.

    #3 I am not saying and have not said anything about gays facing legal consequences because they are gay. Where the hell did you come up with that???

    I am saying marriage should not be redefined for the sake of homosexuality, polygamy or incest etc. It should not be for any reason.

    So please stop with the deflecting garbage as it is not the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I see irony of pushing "greater good" arguments and societal concerns over properly restrained government coming from "conservatives".
    I have been a team player in one form or another all my life including a majority of governmental groups. I think I have greater incite (purely anecdotal for certain) on the affects of changes to large groups as I have seen it good and bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    A real conservative once knew the proper limits of government, they didn't use socialist arguments and basically say "**** rights, it's for the good of society" arguments.
    So now you are the judge of what a "real" conservative is? Sorry can't agree with that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  8. #708
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    So it is freedom that a private company can't say who they hire or a school who it lets in? I mean it is a fairly big list including imminent domain now for private interests etc.

    That is also an example and a real world example. In the end it is still my opinion vs many others and not really anything more.

    Until we can see into the future, we can't know what will be the effects. So we take a guess.
    You're talking about a separate issue here. That is discrimination laws. Those also encompass protections of race, religion, and gender (to name a few). If you don't want the government to protect people from discrimination, then fight those laws. Either you are against government protection against discrimination or you are for it only based on your criteria of who should be protected. The first one is at least fair to everyone (although it is easily argued that some people need protection). The second is discrimination, whether you wish to see it or not. While some discrimination is okay, it should have a rational basis for that discrimination. No one has shown a rational basis yet to discriminate against homosexuals.

    And arguing discrimination laws will force people to accept homosexuality legally is not a rational basis. That same argument could be used for race as well. "If we give everyone the right to marry whichever race they want, then companies will be forced to recognize those marriages even if they don't agree with those marriages. Schools will be forced to teach that such unions are okay, no matter how the parents feel about these couples. How is that right?"

    Tell me the difference between what you stated against same sex marriage and my argument above against interracial marriage.


    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I am saying marriage should not be redefined for the sake of homosexuality, polygamy or incest etc. It should not be for any reason.

    So please stop with the deflecting garbage as it is not the case.
    Legal marriage should be redefined as necessary anytime it discriminates against people without a rational basis for doing so.

    Legal marriage is a contractual union between two people (currently limited by the gender of the two people wishing to be involved in the contract). That contract sets up legal rights and responsibilities to those people involved in the contract, including making those two people each other's closest legal relative. This designation benefits both the couple and the government/society.

    Polygamy involves more than one person, so therefore would not legally set up who was actually the closest legal relative of all those involved, including who would have final say on legal/medical decisions or who would inherit what without a will. The marriage contract, as it currently is, would not provide most of those same benefits to both the group or government/society as it does when the contract is between just two people. More paperwork/contracts would be necessary beyond the marriage license to actually set up who the one true closest relative is for a person in a polygamy marriage situation.

    Incest would involve two people who already are considered legal family. It is not comparable to same sex marriage because the two people who wish to be married in a same sex marriage are not already a legal part of each others families. There are certain legal rights that come from being a family member, including visitation rights and legal say in certain matters.

    Same sex couples fit legally right into the legal contract of marriage and they legitimately need it. There is no other way for them to become each others legal family member with the same benefits, rights, and responsibilities (completely) as a legal marriage. The only thing that makes such couples different from opposite sex couples is the gender of the two people involved, just as the only thing that made interracial couples different was the race of the two people involved.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  9. #709
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You're talking about a separate issue here.
    It is exactly the same issue. Either you are for personal freedom or you are not, right? I mean Ikari whom I was referring to said this many times. I don't see you correcting him?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    While some discrimination is okay
    This pretty much sums up your post. It is OK as long as you agree with it.

    No problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  10. #710
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    I am completely bored with this. I have repeated myself way to many times to continue. Most of what you will ask or try and refute has already been answered so..

    Have a good one and God bless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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