View Poll Results: What is same sex marriage?

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  • A special right

    109 56.77%
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    62 32.29%
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Thread: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

  1. #691
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Who is appealing to tradition? It IS the definition of what a Christian is. By your definition a Satan worshiper must be a Christian because they also accept the Bible.
    So by your definition, the Westboro Baptist Church are Christians but a philanthropist who lives his life in accordance to Jesus's teachings but does not believe in the divity of Jesus would not be considered a Christian? Good definition.

    For legal purposes, yes it would.
    Interesting.

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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    So by your definition, the Westboro Baptist Church are Christians but a philanthropist who lives his life in accordance to Jesus's teachings but does not believe in the divity of Jesus would not be considered a Christian? Good definition.
    Yes exactly. The Westburro people I personally don't consider good Christians, but they still go by the basic tenants of Christianity. The guy who does not accept Christ, is not a Christian, nor is he saved by the blood or Christ, period.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Interesting.
    Why? I obey the law. Pretty simple.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    You showed no evidence. You showed supposition and opinion; that is not evidence. Evidence is measurable fact, and of that you really have given nothing. There's no measurement, there's nothing definitive. Instead you have things like "it will infringe upon the 1st amendment rights" or "there will be lawsuits" blah blah blah. There seriously was not one iota of "evidence" which you have shown. And evidence is what you need. Your side is the side which wishes to infringe upon the rights of another. Since you are the side wanting to use government force against the rights and liberties of another; you must have proof as to why it is necessary and just. Opinion and supposition are not a good basis for policy empowering the use of government force against others.

    The thing that is annoying is that you keep wanted to say "that's your opinion"; but it's beyond that. It's that you haven't shown anything that is demonstrable, that is measurable, that is rational to excuse the force you wish to use. If you have no proof, you have no valid or just reason to infringe upon the rights of others. That's a basic building block of the Republic.
    Again you don't like the answers. It is not beyond anything accept maybe comprehension on your part. I don't know what to tell you, I made it clear and it is just as valid as your own supposition and speculation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  4. #694
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Again you don't like the answers. It is not beyond anything accept maybe comprehension on your part. I don't know what to tell you, I made it clear and it is just as valid as your own supposition and speculation.
    No, it's not really as simple as you want to make it. My desire on this issue is to abide by the rights and liberties of the individual. Yours is to use government force against the rights and liberties of the individual. Your position carries with it the necessity of proof. You have not provided proof, you have not provided evidence. You have provided nothing but supposition and opinion. While opinions can vary and people are entitled to their own view; when you talk about actual use of government force there has to be valid reason to enact that government force. That is what you are missing, valid reason. Nothing you've supplied is anything above supposition. Proper government force cannot be used against the rights and liberties of the individual without proof. Proof is what you need. You need to demonstrate this large, negative affect you think will be there. You need to show that your rights will be violated.

    Everything that you posted as "evidence", I've already dismantled and you haven't addressed any of the counter arguments other than to say "that's your opinion". But what I asked for was this "proof" you went on and on about. What I didn't get was actual proof. You have no measurements.

    The fact remains, if you want to justly use government force against the rights and liberties of others, you have to show proof that said action would in and of itself innately infringe upon the rights of others. You can't just say "well I think my 1st amendment rights will be trampled on" in order to excuse government force. You have to demonstrate that your 1st amendment rights would be trampled on in order for that to constitute valid proof. Supposition is not proof. It is just supposition and assumption. Those do not construct firm basis for legislation and government force.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No, it's not really as simple as you want to make it. My desire on this issue is to abide by the rights and liberties of the individual. Yours is to use government force against the rights and liberties of the individual. Your position carries with it the necessity of proof. You have not provided proof, you have not provided evidence. You have provided nothing but supposition and opinion. While opinions can vary and people are entitled to their own view; when you talk about actual use of government force there has to be valid reason to enact that government force. That is what you are missing, valid reason. Nothing you've supplied is anything above supposition. Proper government force cannot be used against the rights and liberties of the individual without proof. Proof is what you need. You need to demonstrate this large, negative affect you think will be there. You need to show that your rights will be violated.

    Everything that you posted as "evidence", I've already dismantled and you haven't addressed any of the counter arguments other than to say "that's your opinion". But what I asked for was this "proof" you went on and on about. What I didn't get was actual proof. You have no measurements.

    The fact remains, if you want to justly use government force against the rights and liberties of others, you have to show proof that said action would in and of itself innately infringe upon the rights of others. You can't just say "well I think my 1st amendment rights will be trampled on" in order to excuse government force. You have to demonstrate that your 1st amendment rights would be trampled on in order for that to constitute valid proof. Supposition is not proof. It is just supposition and assumption. Those do not construct firm basis for legislation and government force.
    Yes I have and my argument is just as valid as yours. We have been over this before and you are at this point rattling off the same tired rhetoric. As soon as you come up with something new, we can continue.

    I am not going to answer the same questions or argue the same points over and over again because you want to rattle off the same old tired jargon about" I am for liberty" you are for "forcing government" sorry.

    If you read back in the thread every single thing you have just said I have replied to AND made a rebuttal. You again don't like it. Oh well.

    Now if you actually have something new, great lets continue. If you don't, move on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  6. #696
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No, it's not really as simple as you want to make it. My desire on this issue is to abide by the rights and liberties of the individual. Yours is to use government force against the rights and liberties of the individual. Your position carries with it the necessity of proof. You have not provided proof, you have not provided evidence. You have provided nothing but supposition and opinion. While opinions can vary and people are entitled to their own view; when you talk about actual use of government force there has to be valid reason to enact that government force. That is what you are missing, valid reason. Nothing you've supplied is anything above supposition. Proper government force cannot be used against the rights and liberties of the individual without proof. Proof is what you need. You need to demonstrate this large, negative affect you think will be there. You need to show that your rights will be violated.

    Everything that you posted as "evidence", I've already dismantled and you haven't addressed any of the counter arguments other than to say "that's your opinion". But what I asked for was this "proof" you went on and on about. What I didn't get was actual proof. You have no measurements.

    The fact remains, if you want to justly use government force against the rights and liberties of others, you have to show proof that said action would in and of itself innately infringe upon the rights of others. You can't just say "well I think my 1st amendment rights will be trampled on" in order to excuse government force. You have to demonstrate that your 1st amendment rights would be trampled on in order for that to constitute valid proof. Supposition is not proof. It is just supposition and assumption. Those do not construct firm basis for legislation and government force.
    Amen amen amen
    While I like this whole post because of its factual and reality based common sense, sentence 2 and 3 are all anybody honest needs to read. Anybody that wants to stand up for the rights liberties and freedoms of their fellow Americans can see that sentence 2 and 3 are as true and to the core of the issue as it gets. The rest is just driving the point home in gold, platinum, diamonds and everything else you can think of to show it reigns TRUE.




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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Yes I have and my argument is just as valid as yours. We have been over this before and you are at this point rattling off the same tired rhetoric. As soon as you come up with something new, we can continue.

    I am not going to answer the same questions or argue the same points over and over again because you want to rattle off the same old tired jargon about" I am for liberty" you are for "forcing government" sorry.

    If you read back in the thread every single thing you have just said I have replied to AND made a rebuttal. You again don't like it. Oh well.

    Now if you actually have something new, great lets continue. If you don't, move on.
    I already went through your list and showed why each doesn't hold up to scrutiny. You merely responded by "that's your opinion". It's nothing more than dodge tactics and weak debate skills. You didn't try to defend against your supossition and assumption; you deflect and run. That's it.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  8. #698
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    Amen amen amen
    While I like this whole post because of its factual and reality based common sense, sentence 2 and 3 are all anybody honest needs to read. Anybody that wants to stand up for the rights liberties and freedoms of their fellow Americans can see that sentence 2 and 3 are as true and to the core of the issue as it gets. The rest is just driving the point home in gold, platinum, diamonds and everything else you can think of to show it reigns TRUE.




    Well in the end, it seems to come down to resolve. Does one have the resolve to live free? Because in such a system, you're going to have to accept behavior you may not find correct, or that you cannot support, or that you may even find morally repugnant. But if your desire is to be free, to live by the consequences of freedom, to push for it as much as possible; then you have to weight everything by the rights and liberties of the individual. Because that is what matters in a free society. If one has the desire and resolve to live free, they'll always ask "is this proper use of government force?", and will be honest with themselves in trying to obtain the answer.
    Last edited by Ikari; 01-10-11 at 05:10 PM.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I already went through your list and showed why each doesn't hold up to scrutiny. You merely responded by "that's your opinion". It's nothing more than dodge tactics and weak debate skills. You didn't try to defend against your supossition and assumption; you deflect and run. That's it.
    Dude that is a load. You said it will not hurt society or probably will not, I said it would and showed why. Since none of us can see into the future it is based on conjecture and supposition on your part as well.

    So no dodge, just common sense.

    Get over the "personal freedom" crap as well. Lot of things have been taken away by the government over the years for the sake of society, rather than the individual.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 01-10-11 at 09:45 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  10. #700
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    How are Civil Unions(with the same legal standing as marriage) different than marriage?
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