View Poll Results: What is same sex marriage?

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  • A special right

    109 56.77%
  • Equal protection

    62 32.29%
  • Other

    21 10.94%
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Thread: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

  1. #551
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    So are gays as citizens of the USA forced via government to issue heterosexuals a marriage license?
    hmmmm interesting note; i would have to say no because we have a representative government. majority of the representatives of the people and all that.
    Last edited by cpwill; 01-05-11 at 11:27 PM.

  2. #552
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    You mean like blue laws? We ain't got those no more. No one forces me to go to church, no one forces me to believe in a certain god, no one forces me to not work on any particular day of the week (in fact, my professor would be quite irate if I wasn't working 7 days a week...****ing science). As such, there's no real law forcing people to keep holy the sabbath. Crappy blue laws, yeah those suck and most places seem to be doing away with them (except now it's highly resisted not by Christians, but by Supermarkets and the like who will sell a lot of beer on Sunday due to liquor stores being closed).
    A dirty little secret is that many blue laws are still around...they were just recoded as "communal laws" and credited to "the will of the people"instead of "the will of God".

  3. #553
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Nah, they tried that. I went to Catholic School
    That response shows me that you don't know how terrorists are converted.

  4. #554
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I ask this in all seriousness: Please tell me why SSM is any of my business;
    Hallelujah! You are exactly right. It's none of your business, it's none of my business. It's really only gay people's business. In that, it's not really up to us to tell others they can't legally marry. Why should we be concerned? If they're happy, not infringing upon the rights of others; what business is it really of ours? None. We should mind our own beeswax (where the hell did that expression come from?).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    how am I directly affected by a SSM ban; how will SSM directly affect me; what do I have to gain with the legalization of SSM?
    How are you directly affected by the legalization of SSM? How will it directly affect you? Will you lose anything because of the legalization? Let's cut to the chase. What do you really get by preventing same sex couples from marrying? Why should you care that they get married? How much effort is it really worth? It's just as easy to vote yes for SSM as it is to vote no. Same amount of energy. All you have to do is vote yes. Same effort as voting no. So why is it worth it? Preventing a certain sort of folk from legally marrying? At the very least, if you vote yes...there's a chance the bitching will eventually go away. So long as it's illegal, the bitching will never stop. Hey, I'd like them all to STFU about it too. There's well more important things to worry about.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  5. #555
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    That response shows me that you don't know how terrorists are converted.
    ....buttsex?......
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #556
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    A dirty little secret is that many blue laws are still around...they were just recoded as "communal laws" and credited to "the will of the people"instead of "the will of God".
    Not here. I can buy all the beer I want on Sunday. If I didn't spend the whole of it in a bar drinking beer, watching football.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #557
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I ask this in all seriousness: Please tell me why SSM is any of my business; how am I directly affected by a SSM ban; how will SSM directly affect me; what do I have to gain with the legalization of SSM?

    I will completely drop the bull**** to get a straight and concise answer.
    Really?
    Ill play for now until you start being, well . . . . you?
    Although your questions dont seem to really make sense.

    1.)Please tell me why SSM is any of my business?
    Its not thats why you shouldnt try to stop it, ESPECIALLY just for spite, which is ignorant as **** LOL but was probably you being you and just saying stuff

    2.)how am I directly affected by a SSM ban?
    YOU aren't but millions of american are discriminated against and thats wrong

    3.)how will SSM directly affect me?
    It wont directly effect YOU, indirectly the country you live in will rid itself of one more wrong.

    4.)what do I have to gain with the legalization of SSM?
    see answer above

    is that what you wanted?
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  8. #558
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    keep telling yourself that, tomorrow it still wont be true LMAO
    like i said if you think its right, arge a reason it will get defeated just like all the others
    You have been given reasons 100 times over, but you are unwilling to accept the truth of the situation.

    Your problem, not mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    yep because people didnt want DISCRIMINATED and FREEDOMS something you obviously dont care about, just more empty spin talk by you
    I cared enough to serve for 12 years. So again you make no sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    thats it change the words add more spin to it LMAO
    its wrong to discriminate based on sexuality PERIOD of course an avg joe can but that doesnt apply to the debate does it?

    .......NOPE

    more meaningless talk
    So to be clear you got nothing and no such law exists, thanks for clearing that up.


    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    it doesnt need to float with you, its just you being dishonest to feel better about your stance. Homosexuals are already a protected group like minorities so your OPINION is meaningless and that fact alone doesnt allow it to be a strawman it makes it an example of parallel of discrimination not a strawman.
    I am against any protected groups as it flies directly in the face of liberty. Either the law is equal across the board in it's treatment, or it's not, period.

    Government should never have got involved in marriage to begin with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    Yep you want to discriminate, just like racists, they saw it as black or white and black is wrong or vice versa, thanks I get it LOL
    Has nothing to do with discriminating or wanting to discriminate. To assume such is just ignorant. Marriage is one man and a woman.

    I will continue to support the sanctity of that institution.


    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    LMAO more meaningless spin to the debate
    So the basis of our laws and those who framed them are meaningless spin when it does not support your argument?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    You have no business telling two sound mind consenting human adults who they can marry just like with interracial marriage, people saw that as "wrong" too, Im glad people didnt listen.
    I have every right just like all the Americans who came before. Your opinion fortunately carries no weight either way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  9. #559
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    crickets :d
    Sometimes it takes more than a minute to respond, I have a life.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  10. #560
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    I wanted to revisit some of the research indicating homosexual parenting is as good as or better than the male/female/biological/paradigm.

    I'll use this study by dr's gartrell and bos. Their research was highlighted in this Time article. Here it is again in live science. Hell, even the usnews reported it. It must be true, right?

    Well, I was able to find the site for this study by on this website. I appreciate that because it often difficult to see this type of research material without paying for it.

    154 lesbian women in 84 families (70 birth mothers, 70 co mothers, 14 single women) enrolled in this study from flyers placed in areas that were frequented by lesbians. Over the course of the study, some 25 years, some participants dropped out, decided against staying in the study. Some 56% of the lesbian participants separated during the course of the study. Something like 70% of them shared custody of the offspring. The rest did not. All of the lesbian participants conceived thu invitro. Very little information was offered for the control group (heterosexual groups. Most of the information available for them was discerned from a chart.

    Conclusion of study.
    According to the authors of this study the offspring of the lesbians were "well adusted, demonstrating more competencies and fewer behavioral problems than their peers in the normative american population.

    Financial support thefor this study;
    the gill foundation, the lesbian health fund of the gay lesbian medical, horizons foundation, and the roy scrivner foundation.

    Authors of the study.
    Nanette gartrell. Dr gartrell is married to lesbian feminist activist and filmmaker dee mosbacher. Dr. henny bos is the other dr involved in the study.

    Problems I have with the study.
    The control group (heteros) were from several parts of the country. The lesbian groups were primarily from cities in the northeast and west. Whites comprised over 90% of the lesbians in this study. Whites comprised only 70% of the hetero group. Is this important? Yes!

    This study was conducted by, administered by, financed by, lesbians. Is this proof of bias? No. On the other hand it's not unreasonable to suggest bias could certainly be a factor. Researchers often go to great length to remove all possibility of bias in studies in order to insure their validity. In this case I see little to suggest they addressed this issue at all.

    The lesbian participants were self-selected. I'll give you a comparison. When polls are put on tv shows, in newspapers, and such asking for opinions they are presented as "unscientific polls." This is because the participants often have "motives" to participate. This is often construed as "bias." In "scientific polls" the participants are selected. This minimizes the chances of bias.

    Are the conclusions of this study valid? Do lesbian couples and singles raise children as well or better than hetero couples and singles ? I don't know. I do know this particular study has enough flaws in it to call these conclusions into doubt. Before you read this and, hopefully, read the study yourself you couldn't tell by the times, usnews, and live science articles.

    What does this say about the other studies? Nothing. Are the other studies valid? I don't know. Unless you know the particulars you don't know either. Does this mean you cannot trust any scientific studies, don't be silly. What this does mean is people need to be sceptical. People need to understand the "latest" and "greatest" study is just that, the latest. Science is an ongoing process. It never stops. Science is the search for facts, not truth. Science also works much better when free of politics.

    What does this say about the other studies? Nothing. Are the other studies valid? I don't know. Unless you know the particulars you don't know either. I can tell you this is one of several recent studies that stand in stark contrast to the hundreds and hundeds of studies of the past several decades that indicate the male/female/monogamous paradigm produce the most consistantly well adjusted children extent. That and the intense political pressures that are beginning to be brought to bear. Science works best when politics aren't involved.

    Does this mean you cannot trust any scientific studies, don't be silly. What this does mean is people need to be sceptical. People need to understand the "latest" and "greatest" study is just that, the latest. Science is an ongoing process. It never stops. Science is the search for facts, not truth.
    He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. ~ Winston Churchill

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