View Poll Results: What is same sex marriage?

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  • A special right

    109 56.77%
  • Equal protection

    62 32.29%
  • Other

    21 10.94%
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Thread: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

  1. #511
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I think that perhaps that's a bit of a stretch. And even if it were true, I'd take that as a consequence of freedom. I don't see how the government can force people to marry or not marry. It needs to be an individual decision; and whatever comes of that is just a consequence of freedom. We can make similar arguments about all rights in general. They're dangerous, because people are free and the system is reactive, someone will take advantage. We have to pay the costs of the crime, of rising insurance (if it were called into play by said crime), of the judicial system, of housing prisoners, etc. But in the end, that's part of the consequences of choosing freedom over Big Brother. We're necessarily going to have a more dangerous situation, one which we may have to pay a bit more into, deal with a bit more crime, etc. But it's better than the alternative. I don't want people's expectation of social engineering enforced through law. Or if we do, it will be MY social engineering. I am negatively impacted by idiots all the time, be it on the road, their poor decisions which lead to legislative, procedural changes or crimes, etc. It's my business. Thus all stupid people (as defined by me) should be castrated as to prevent future stupid people from being in my way. I like it!
    Oh, so when the Harm Principal applies and is breached, the justification is "consider it the cost of freedom".

    Very good, then, I don't care that gays are being needlessly harmed by anti-GM legislation, consider it the cost of freedom.

  2. #512
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Oh, so when the Harm Principal applies and is breached, the justification is "consider it the cost of freedom".

    Very good, then, I don't care that gays are being needlessly harmed by anti-GM legislation, consider it the cost of freedom.
    Yours is a cost of tyranny. I didn't say that we don't police wrong doing or let criminals go. It's that we can't control people and bad things will happen; and when they do we can enact government force, but not before hand. That's a cost of freedom. The oppression of a certain sect of society through government force because they go against some religious teaching is a cost of tyranny.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  3. #513
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Why the hell would I wear a burka? I'm atheist...and a man, man. We don't have to dress up in silly cloths or not eat pork (which, BTW, is how I define a religion to be wrong. If you forbid to consumption of pork, your religion is wrong).
    That's right, my bad, your arranged wife would be wearing a burka while you would be praying 5 times a day, atheist or no.

  4. #514
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yours is a cost of tyranny. I didn't say that we don't police wrong doing or let criminals go. It's that we can't control people and bad things will happen; and when they do we can enact government force, but not before hand. That's a cost of freedom. The oppression of a certain sect of society through government force because they go against some religious teaching is a cost of tyranny.
    Right, right, because even though gay relations are strictly against Christian texts, here I am, a Christian, on this thread ready to give support to legislation which allowed gay marriage. Sure, whatever.

  5. #515
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Right, right, because even though gay relations are strictly against Christian texts, here I am, a Christian, on this thread ready to give support to legislation which allowed gay marriage. Sure, whatever.
    I've noticed an interesting pattern with conservatives like you and NP. You guys say you support something until it actually comes up and then you keep moving the goal posts on it. For you, you "support" same sex marriage, but only if it is restricted to couples who have children.

    That goal post strategy allows you to claim you support something that you actually don't support. It doesn't fool people though, so I don't know why you use it.

  6. #516
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I as an American citizen can certainly force what I want as far as laws go any way I wish. That is what our court system is for.

    SO no nothing has been "debunked" no matter how much you rant about it.
    Actually it has been, you can deny that reality all you want but per the discussion it as been clearly debunked and your beliefs will never change that.

    It can easily be argued hypocritical and anti-american among many other things that in fact makes it debunked for this discussion. LMAO

    As an american citizen it is wrong to discriminate,thats another reason

    I know its because of your beliefs and thats fine they are yours to have but I find it even more hypocritical of you since you are black. You essentially would vote and fight to discriminate against gays the same way racist tried to vote against blacks for different things including interracial marriage. I know you obviously dont care but I find that so sad and it makes me pray to MY god for you and people like you. I hope Im right and you are wrong so we BOTH get to where we want to go.
    This space is currently owned by The Great Winchester, stay tuned for future messages!
    Make America Great Again!
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  7. #517
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Really the founders thoughts on rights came from a more humanist perspective, that we have rights simply because we are human.
    um.... the Founders often went to some length to specifically place those rights as being the gift of God; i'd like to see some kind of evidence for this claim.

  8. #518
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It's not nonsense when you want to subjugate me to the rules of your god.
    my God says no murder. so it's too late; i'm already forcing you to live under His laws

  9. #519
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    That's right, my bad, your arranged wife would be wearing a burka while you would be praying 5 times a day, atheist or no.
    **** that. Praying is a pointless endevour, it gets you nothing. Action gets you places. I wouldn't be sitting around praying all the time, and my wife would be super sexy and wearing a miniskirt all the time. Hehehe
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  10. #520
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Right, right, because even though gay relations are strictly against Christian texts, here I am, a Christian, on this thread ready to give support to legislation which allowed gay marriage. Sure, whatever.
    That was in response to your "I don't care that gays are being needlessly harmed by anti-GM legislation, consider it the cost of freedom". statement. I was clarifying why that is not a cost of freedom, but rather a cost of tyranny. I know you weren't saying that seriously, I was just saying that the situation you came up with is a cost of tyranny since it imposes government force BEFORE rights are violated. That was it man. Come on, let's not play the hyperbole card.
    Last edited by Ikari; 01-05-11 at 10:20 PM.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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