View Poll Results: What is same sex marriage?

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  • A special right

    109 56.77%
  • Equal protection

    62 32.29%
  • Other

    21 10.94%
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Thread: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

  1. #41
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Gay marriage is a made up term, kind of like Muslim Bar Mitzvah would be, which shows the terrible intrusion of government into our personal lives that special rights and benefits are tied to someone's marital status. If you redefine the religious institution of marriage, you are violating the first amendment. If you don't, you are violating the 14th amendment. The solution is to get the government out of the marriage business. Stop tying tax and social benefits to marriage status and let people have freedom of conscience to get married or not be married without government recognition.
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  2. #42
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by friday View Post
    Gay marriage is a made up term, kind of like Muslim Bar Mitzvah would be, which shows the terrible intrusion of government into our personal lives that special rights and benefits are tied to someone's marital status. If you redefine the religious institution of marriage, you are violating the first amendment. If you don't, you are violating the 14th amendment. The solution is to get the government out of the marriage business. Stop tying tax and social benefits to marriage status and let people have freedom of conscience to get married or not be married without government recognition.
    You are not violating the first amendment by allowing gay marriage. That is a horrible argument. Religion does not own the word marriage in the US. In fact, if that were true, then there would be a legal case for any and all religions to sue the government for allowing anyone to get married without having some religious ceremony.

    A person will still maintain their personal definition of marriage. A church will still maintain their personal definition of marriage and will in no way be required to recognize or perform ceremonies for couples that don't want to.

    And, legal marriage is more than just a personal commitment of two people in love. It is a way of making a person who isn't already immediate family, a legal relative. It comes with legal and financial obligations to those in the marriage. It provides a single document to take the place of many legal documents to ensure that a person's spouse has the final say in medical and legal matters concerning the person.

    It isn't necessary to give people tax breaks or any monetary benefits of marriage, so if that is what you are concerned with, fine. Advocate to get rid of those, and truly make it just a contract. But the contract is important to many married couples, whether they are religious or not.

    If it is the word marriage, then advocate to get the marriage contract changed to a contract of civil union for everyone. Otherwise, it technically is discrimination, even if it is just because of a word.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  3. #43
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post

    At the time when marriage was being designed and implemented, a few hundred thousand years back in time
    A few hundred thousand years you say.

    I take it, cultural anthropology isn't your thing.
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  4. #44
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    I considered answering each of your well thought out and thought provoking arguments. However, I won't. Ultimately this will only come to naught. You will simply come to the conclusion I'm an ignorant lout fully incapable of appreciating "logic." Your logic.

    You see what this boils down to is a matter of politics. Politics based on cultural differences and mores. I'm more than willing to compromise, a distinct cultural trait. I've stated on this forum and others many times I would support civil unions, along with my obama. I am willing to let the states decide the issue, as with abortion, as long as my state has the same capability.

    But your culture cannot and will not compromise, also a cultural trait btw. Yes, I can appreciate your position. You want to believe your cultural mores are superior to mine. You want to believe your position is based on love, tolerance, science, and dispasionate reason. I like that last one. There can only be one truth in the universe, and it's mine.

    Sorry, no sale. I view your culture as essentially flawed. It cannot reproduce it's own numbers. You people take too many shortcuts, and it's hurt not only you, but the rest of us as well. Ultimately, your culture will die. It's dying now, of decadence. It's child and family unfriendly. It's materialistic, narcissistic, inhumane and completely absorbed with tertiary issues completely unrealated to survival.

    Traditional western european culture has survived thousands of years largely intact. I'm just wondering how it can survive your humanistic variation. I don't want to change your culture, I just want to be free of it. I want to be left alone. I want to continue to do my part to create a just and fair society, one that can survive into the next century or so. We simply cannot do that if we are to submit to every whim your culture deems appropriate for us to adopt. It isn't that I don't understand your position on this or any other issue you deem important. I just reject it. You voted for the wrong man. Next time vote for mr obama. The least you can do is to be honest with yourself.
    What the heck are you talking about?

    I happen to be heterosexual, a married woman with two children. I am not basing my beliefs on this subject off of some ideology that fits into one of your little boxes that you seem to be putting people into.

    I have my own reasons for the side I am on for every issue there is. I have posted before that, depending on what the issue are that I find most important at the time, I vote according to how in line the candidate is with me on multiple issues, not just one. It would be really stupid for anyone to vote on just one issue, unless that one issue affects your life way more than any other one. There are at least hundreds of issues, and so many varying levels of support for those issues, that there is little chance that a candidate will match any person's views exactly, on every single issue.

    I have no belief that gays having the right to marry cause anyone to stop having children or even slow down the baby-making. And you have no proof to back up your claim, even any that says it might. Same sex marriage gives same sex couples the same right that I currently enjoy, to be able to sign a legal marriage contract with the person that I fell in love with and want to raise children with. It will give them the rights I have, like being able to live in military housing (eventually), being able to make medical decisions for my husband when he can't and having him make them for me when I can't, being able be claimed as a legal dependent, and many, many more. None of those things have anything to do with religion. And all of them should be available to homosexuals through a marriage contract.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #45
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    What the heck are you talking about?

    I happen to be heterosexual, a married woman with two children. I am not basing my beliefs on this subject off of some ideology that fits into one of your little boxes that you seem to be putting people into.

    I have my own reasons for the side I am on for every issue there is. I have posted before that, depending on what the issue are that I find most important at the time, I vote according to how in line the candidate is with me on multiple issues, not just one. It would be really stupid for anyone to vote on just one issue, unless that one issue affects your life way more than any other one. There are at least hundreds of issues, and so many varying levels of support for those issues, that there is little chance that a candidate will match any person's views exactly, on every single issue.

    I have no belief that gays having the right to marry cause anyone to stop having children or even slow down the baby-making. And you have no proof to back up your claim, even any that says it might. Same sex marriage gives same sex couples the same right that I currently enjoy, to be able to sign a legal marriage contract with the person that I fell in love with and want to raise children with. It will give them the rights I have, like being able to live in military housing (eventually), being able to make medical decisions for my husband when he can't and having him make them for me when I can't, being able be claimed as a legal dependent, and many, many more. None of those things have anything to do with religion. And all of them should be available to homosexuals through a marriage contract.
    The only thing that seems to be stopping people from having kids is affluence, the more affluent a society gets, the less children they have, raising a child is expensive in our countries.

    The notion that somehow gays marrying will discourage people from having kids is about as far removed from reality as a Micheal Jackson ressurection...

    Good post rogue.

  6. #46
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Same sex marriage is a corruption and re-definition of marriage. It's not about a special right or equal protection. It's about changing marriage and the roles of marriage to fit a sexuality that is incapable of marriage under proper terms.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
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  7. #47
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Same sex marriage is a corruption and re-definition of marriage. It's not about a special right or equal protection. It's about changing marriage and the roles of marriage to fit a sexuality that is incapable of marriage under proper terms.
    It is only incapable of the marriage that view as acceptable. It is completely capable of fitting the proper terms of a legal marriage that is granted to heterosexual couples, since there are no actual requirements that a heterosexual couple in a legal marriage have any religious beliefs and/or either want or can have their own biological children.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  8. #48
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It is only incapable of the marriage that view as acceptable. It is completely capable of fitting the proper terms of a legal marriage that is granted to heterosexual couples, since there are no actual requirements that a heterosexual couple in a legal marriage have any religious beliefs and/or either want or can have their own biological children.
    No it's not. Marriage is a union between a man and woman, a husband and wife. By definition, a man cannot be a wife and a woman cannot be a husband. Two husbands or two wives do not make a marriage. It is not capable of fitting the proper terms for marriage and should not be recognized as such Homosexual unions should be recognized as civil unions, not a marriage.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    No it's not. Marriage is a union between a man and woman, a husband and wife. By definition, a man cannot be a wife and a woman cannot be a husband. Two husbands or two wives do not make a marriage. It is not capable of fitting the proper terms for marriage and should not be recognized as such Homosexual unions should be recognized as civil unions, not a marriage.
    It's just a word...

  10. #50
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    It's just a word...
    Which is why we should keep it proper You wouldn't improperly call a dudes penis a vagina because he says he's a woman would you? Definition is important, the moral aspects and social aspects to marriage are also important and in my opinion, should be upheld to a higher standard than what we currently have.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

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