View Poll Results: What is same sex marriage?

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  • A special right

    109 56.77%
  • Equal protection

    62 32.29%
  • Other

    21 10.94%
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Thread: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

  1. #451
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I'd love to know the biggest reason.
    They have been listed in this thread multiple times: more stable environment for children and adults.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  2. #452
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    My first "attempt" was fine, it gave the information needed. Despite how many times you've been in threads like these you somehow never learned that there's a difference between sex and gender. Not sure how that happened but it was pointed out to me by Capt'n Courtesy a few years ago, so there was a point in time I didn't know either.
    No, you cherry picked the information. Words in Webster's Dictionary may have mulitple definitions. One of those definitions for Gender happens to be "Sex". You chose to omit that because it invalidated your argument. While medically the two words may have seperate meanings, by their definitions Gender can be used to be indicating ones Sex.

    Only accounting for legal terms is just another silly game on your part, and I know this because your gender doesn't matter in determining what part of a jail you can use; that's determined by your sex. If you're a pre-op transsexual male to female, despite having always identified as a woman you will be placed with men.
    Its not a silly game, but a practical point. If legal entities within the United States routinely use "Gender" and "Sex" relatively interchangably, or use "Gender" as a synonym for sex at times, then whether or not its medically viewed as different isn't really the issue here. Even the U.S's Equal Employment Oppertunity Commission uses the words somewhat interchangably. While talking in a heading of "Sex Discrimination" about "Sexual Harassment" they clearly state:

    Sexual Harassment - This includes practices ranging from direct requests for sexual favors to workplace conditions that create a hostile environment for persons of either gender, including same sex harassment. (The "hostile environment" standard also applies to harassment on the bases of race, color, national origin, religion, age, and disability.)
    While I fully identify and acknowledge that there's a significant difference between the two when viewed from the medical world, common vernacular...even coming from government entities...uses them somewhat interchangably.

    As to the issue with the pre-op transexual...there's no clear cut answer for that. Some states, or even cities, allow for people to change their legal status prior to surgery, others don't. Still, others outright don't allow it while some have not even addressed the issue yet. There seems to be no consistant reference to the information on ones birth certificate as to whether its a "sex" or "gender" identification, as information about it continually switches between the two interchangably as per the common vernacular.

    This is you being annoyed because apparently some time ago, likely in an argument that was not about the use of the word but something far more reaching, you got schooled on the subject. As such, you're trying to jab it into another discussion where the implication of what's being talked about is clear, simply because you have a burr up your backside over the issue.

    Anyway, I don't think I ever claimed that a gay-marriage ban discriminated against gender.
    You suggested it would be sex discrimination, not gender discrimination. I was wanting you to actually take a step beyond simply throwing out random statements without backing it up and actually explain your statement. It took a bit of time, but it seems you finally have now.

    Consider me taking a similar tact as the EEOC, and my speaking of "Gender" discrimination in this case is a synonym for "Sexual" discrimination. My apologizes to those that continually and singularly only use the medical defintions of them, but this is not likely to change routinely on my part.

    I understand your frustration, its much the same when people use the common vernacular for nation, state, and country. And at times I put a little vent out about it. But unless its central to the discussion (Such as "is the US a christian nation"), I don't make a giant deal of it when its obvious what they're meaning using the commonly used language rather than the technical definitions.

    The law does not require one person to identify as a man and the other to identify as a woman. The law only requires one person to have a penis and the other have a vagina. Today, a regular lesbian woman could marry a pre-op male-to-female transsexual man who identifies as a woman. No problem. Their genders are both female, but because their sexes are different they could marry.
    You state it as if it is an absolute, when in reality it is not. It varies state to state. For example, in Texas, even if you made that post-op it would still not legally matter as Texas has ruled that surgery can not change ones sex/gender under the law. Alternatively, if a place allowed for changing ones legal sex status prior to surgery...as New York contemplated in 2006...then again the marriage should actually be able to go forward.

    Regardless, if you wish, when you read my statements of "gender discrimination" you can feel free to read it as "sex descrimination". Commonly speaking with regards to the law they are typically used interchangably, even by government groups that watch over said discrimination.

  3. #453
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    They have been listed in this thread multiple times: more stable environment for children and adults.
    So gay couples make better parents then natural parents?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  4. #454
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    So gay couples make better parents then natural parents?
    Who made that exact assertion?

    And in some cases, yes, some gay parents are better parents and vice versa.

    Sexual orientation does not give one super parenting powers either way, just look at these gems:

    Couple's online gaming causes infant's death - News at GameSpot

    In a story out of Korea, which is just now surfacing in the Western press, a couple in Incheon, South Korea, were arrested last week when their 4-month-old daughter died after being left alone by the couple for hours. The mother and father reportedly had gone to a nearby Internet cafe, lost themselves in playing Blizzard's massively multiplayer online PC game World of Warcraft, and returned to their home only to find the infant dead from suffocation. "We booked the pair on criminal charges, judging that when you consider the situation, they were responsible for their daughter's death," a policeman told the Chosun Ilbo newspaper. The couple reportedly told police, "We were thinking of playing for just an hour or two and returning home like usual, but the game took longer that day." The infant was the couple's only child.
    Yep. Straight parents are always PERFECTO!!!

  5. #455
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    So gay couples make better parents then natural parents?
    More along the lines that a gay couple can create a stable environment similar to a heterosexual couple. Nothing in Redress's statement in any say suggests that they're saying that such is "better" than "natural parents", but simply stating they can provide a stable environment.

  6. #456
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    So gay couples make better parents then natural parents?


    I did not say, suggest nor imply gays made better parents. Nice try though.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  7. #457
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    Which is a legal contract
    really. your drivers license is contract?

  8. #458
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Better than being rooted in the Dark Ages.
    on the contrary, stare decisis is one of the underpinnings of our legal system.

    Yet the right to contract does exist, and so long as the Marriage License exists;
    sorry but no; the Lochner era was struck down by the SCOTUS switch in the 1930's. you may argue that we still have it in that it's inalienable - and i would be sympathetic to that claim - but it holds little legal water.

    traded away for a minimum wage....

    there is no rational and just argument against same sex marriage.
    this is what's called a non-falsifiable thesis. i could just as easily declare that there was no rational argument in favor of homosexua marriage. viola, any arguments for that policy change are now by definition irrational and need not be answered. so on and so forth.

    well, that or it's a positive claim of a negative; which is preeeettty difficult to pull off; perhaps you could cite for us the conservative writers you have read on this issue, their main arguments, and what irrationalities you find in each of them?

  9. #459
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    More along the lines that a gay couple can create a stable environment similar to a heterosexual couple. Nothing in Redress's statement in any say suggests that they're saying that such is "better" than "natural parents", but simply stating they can provide a stable environment.
    while it certainly seems reasonable to suppose that they may be a better solution than single parents; i would argue there simpy isn't enough evidence yet on the viability, favorability, or stability of homosexual couples as parents.

  10. #460
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Better than being rooted in the Dark Ages. Yet the right to contract does exist, and so long as the Marriage License exists; there is no rational and just argument against same sex marriage.
    Yes their is, you just don't want to acknowledge it as such.
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    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
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