View Poll Results: What is same sex marriage?

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  • A special right

    109 56.77%
  • Equal protection

    62 32.29%
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    21 10.94%
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Thread: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

  1. #381
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Murder violates another person's right to life. Allowing gays to marry members of the same sex doesn't violate another person's rights at all. Legal marriage is a contract. Religion does not own the word marriage. No one has a copyright on that particular word in fact. And religion has nothing to do with legal contract except that religious leaders are authorized to sign as "approvers" of marriages (if they are registered), along with a number of other people who aren't religious leaders. And there are even some religions and religious leaders who will, in fact, sign off on same sex marriages.

    And allowing a group of people to marry does not force anyone to accept that group, nor does it change anyone's religious beliefs. Any religion that thinks that homosexuality and/or same sex marriages are wrong are completely free not to perform those ceremonies or even allow gays into their church if they so choose.

    Laws are passed all the time that go against someone's religious beliefs. As long as those religions are not forced to accept any of those changes, there is no violation of freedom of religion.
    The whole reason for gay marriage is taxes then, not religion. Well tax laws regarding marriage were originally instituted to reward couples for raising children and giving them tax break for such.
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  2. #382
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    The whole reason for gay marriage is taxes then, not religion. Well tax laws regarding marriage were originally instituted to reward couples for raising children and giving them tax break for such.
    Wrong, it's for the rights and responsibilities that come with the legal contract of marriage.

    Marriage Rights and Benefits - Free Legal Information - Nolo

    Only two or three of those had anything to do with tax benefits. And some of those things cannot be given through a POA.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  3. #383
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    The whole reason for gay marriage is taxes then, not religion. Well tax laws regarding marriage were originally instituted to reward couples for raising children and giving them tax break for such.
    And they shouldn't get it. I don't see why the rest of us have to subsidize other people's choices to have kids. Regardless, it doesn't matter. Gay couples can have kids, I have a good friend who is a lesbian and her and her wife just had a kid last year. And gay couples can also adopt. There are plenty of tax and contractual privilege granted by the Marriage License which same sex couples would like to access. We have no logical and just argument to stop them so long as the Marriage License exists.
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  4. #384
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    actually (theoretically) it does. a local simple majority is not enough to override a national supermajority; leaving the victory with the majority. so, for example, the state of (making this up) kentucky votes to ban gun ownership, puts the measure to a referendum, and it passes overwhelmingly. but obviously it get's overturned by SCOTUS. did the majority not get it's way? the majority did get it's way because the majority on this question was the Supermajority of Americans who say "no taking away people's right to bear arms".
    fact is the majority do not have to get their way no matter how you spin and that was the discussion. FACT
    you believe what you want lol



    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    yes. it was a stupid argument.

    the reality is that all these things we are discussing (gender equality, individual rights, so forth) are rare and relatively new in the order of human society. they are the exception, not the rule.
    I know your argument was stupid thanks for admitting it




    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    equality before the law =/= equality of result. you are engaging in a fallacy of assumption here, a just-so argument.
    wrong just you failing to acknowledge discrimination to feel better about your stance




    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    discrimination isn't wrong in and of itself. as has been pointed out here, we discriminate against all kinds of people and in all kinds of ways and for all kinds of reasons. you are arguing from the assumption that this particular discrimination is morally unjustifiable, which is fine, but let's not pretend it's a universally accepted precept (as you do)..
    more dishonest word games by you, morals have nothing to do with it as those are subjective nor have I even TRIED that argument. Thats you simply ASSUming again and making something up to argue against since you cant logical argue against the rest. This is about discrimination.



    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    says the man who is tacitly admitting that he can't back his claim by proving a negative.
    only by your imaginary standards, the negative is discrimination and thats the only negative I need, its wrong to discriminate in this fashion against my fellow Americans.




    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    lol no you didn't you stated a series of common beliefs lmao and then ttyfn you made a just so statement repeating your belief in a particular set of others motivation bff without answering the question rofl of whether or not you believed that it is possible for well-meaning individuals to come to differing conclusions on this issue lol. jeez. how old are you?
    Wow its pathetic how easy you end up with egg on your face and your foot in your mouth. Heres my quote "once you try and stop it NO in my opinion you aren't a well meaning american, you are an oppressor and discriminator."

    stop, go back and read it again, then, wipe the egg off your face, AGAIN
    tell me that cool part about age again?



    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    it would take about 1/5th of the time you will spend responding to this post at most. what you mean, i believe, is that you cant.
    no thanks anybody reading knows the truth, in fact you are STILL dodging



    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    project much?
    nope you are dodging



    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    well as i pointed out, you weren't necessarily asking yes/no questions.
    Not yes/no questioins? LMAO only to people that know the real answers exposes their hypocrisy, want to discriminate and shows their lack of logic.




    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    yes they were. you do know this is the only way these things were put into law, right? 14th, 19th Amendment ringing any bells? Civil Rights Act of 1964? it passed the House 290-130 and it passed the Senate 71-29. that's what the math world calls a "majority".
    I asked for the percentage of the AMERICAN PEOPLE. What the senate did and house means NOTHING to me or what I said.

    The whole time ive been talking about the majority of the people and you keep playing semantics and playing around it.

    Did interracial marriage become legal based on majority opinion? NOPE

    So all your sarcasm is wasted because it only puts yet more egg on your face.
    Like I said, I dont know about civil and womens rights but I do know about interracial marriage and the fact is the majority of people were AGAINST it.

    Please stay on topic LMAO



    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    if there were no 14th Amendment, 19th Amendment, Civil Rights Act, so on and so forth, then obviously these people would not have full expression of their rights (which they would retain) and I would fight with them as my ancestors did. however, as far as our legal system would be concerned obviously the situation would be different, and the answer would be to change the legal system by convincing a majority (or, if necessary, supermajority) of my fellow citizens to do so.
    so your answer is NO you think it was WRONG to pass civil and women rights if the majority was against it.

    thats all you had to say instead of talking around it LOL


    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    see, whenever you say "dodge" i'm translating to "i have no answer to that".
    of course YOU do, thats how delusion works but that fact remains you are dodging and I cant answer a dodge and/or no answer



    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    no hypocrisy here. there would only be that if i accepted your assumptions which i've tried to point out to you i don't; but you seem to have trouble really comprehending that.
    Your acceptance doesn't change reality. The fact that you say you want equal rights for all and then want to discriminate against gays makes you a hypocrite.

    I guess the people that dont view women and minorities as equal arent hypocrites either right? They want equality for all but since they dont view them as equal its ok to discriminate.

    I guess the racist arent really racist because they dont view blacks of a race of people they think of them as animals?

    ooooooooh I get it now, that makes perfect logical sense <sarcasm>
    LMAO what a joke, how are people this dishonest.
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  5. #385
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    you asked a question.
    yep that could have "truthfully" been answered in one sentence.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    certainly it was used. as was the Constitution.
    finally you admit the TRUTH thanks




    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    actually as a voter I am free to use whatever rationale i like when i vote. If i wish to vote for all measures that start with consonants and against those that start with vowels, i am free to do so. as the voting records tend to make clear, religion has been anything but meaningless when it comes to the defining of marriage in modern America; even demographics as traditionally blue as African Americans tend to vote in favor of traditional marriage because they are also disproportionately religious.
    yes you are FREE to do so and I agree just like i have stated in this thread and you told me thats not what you asked LMAO and again that is NOT the topic.

    What I said is, it is meaningless because it has no business in law, thats my point, your religion (which seems to be mine) has no business in law because if I try to make laws JUST based off my religion then Im forcing my religion on others, especially in situtaion s like this where there is no victim.






    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    as is your opinion limiting it to adults. it just so happens that both of those opinions are widely shared, and we as a society have woven those opinions into our law..
    NO, wrong again my opinion is sound mind consenting adults, like all contracts.
    again use all my views dont try and cherry pick



    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    for a Christian to do this would indeed be humorous. Paul spent no small amount of time telling Christians specifically to stop worrying about Levitcal law.
    That's funny many religious people and Christians included qoute it here everyday LMAO when this topic comes up.
    Regardless when I see a person live the word to the T thats when ill stop laughing at them and take them serious IF they are trying to tell me how to live, Ill always take them serious if they are only telling themselves and theirs how to live just leave me out of it.
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Ok cpwill Im done with your word games and you dancing around so Im getting back on topic and staying on topic.

    Please tell me ONE sound, reasonable, logical, non-bias, non-selfish, non-arrogant, non-hypercritical, non anti-american reason to "Stop" gay marriage.

    This is all Im interested in discussing
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  7. #387
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Gays can have civil unions, not marriage. Marriage is a husband and wife relationship. They are gender specific roles. To include a husband husband or wife wife relationship is to wrongfully classify a relationship as a marriage. Same sex marriage is a contortion of the truth and a reshaping of morality at a legal level.
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Gays can have civil unions, not marriage. Marriage is a husband and wife relationship. They are gender specific roles. To include a husband husband or wife wife relationship is to wrongfully classify a relationship as a marriage. Same sex marriage is a contortion of the truth and a reshaping of morality at a legal level.
    Civil Unions is discrimination.
    With the supporting argument you provided, YOUR definition is nothing more than your opinion, one the law and websters doesnt share.

    There is NO contortion of the truth in reality.
    Law has it for man and women currently but that is discrimination, but law wise, there are no gender specific "roles", law wise "morality" isnt involved.

    And morality is nothing than your subjective opinion. I think its immoral to discriminate based on sexuality so I could make your same statement.

    Changing the law will be illuminating DISCRIMINATION not morality. Its none of your business or my business who two sound consenting adults marry.
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  9. #389
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Gays can have civil unions, not marriage. Marriage is a husband and wife relationship. They are gender specific roles. To include a husband husband or wife wife relationship is to wrongfully classify a relationship as a marriage. Same sex marriage is a contortion of the truth and a reshaping of morality at a legal level.
    If civil unions are different from marriage, then this is an entirely unacceptable solution. If it is the same as marriage, then it is a stupid solution since there is no point in calling two of the same thing different names to appease a few people.

    Husband and wife are typically defined by gender, but less and less so and it is not necessary.
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    The whole reason for gay marriage is taxes then, not religion. Well tax laws regarding marriage were originally instituted to reward couples for raising children and giving them tax break for such.
    That is not nearly the whole reason. It isn't even the biggest reason.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
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