View Poll Results: What is same sex marriage?

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  • A special right

    109 56.77%
  • Equal protection

    62 32.29%
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    21 10.94%
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Thread: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

  1. #361
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    I'm not suprised. I tend to be very libertarian minded and I find myself on the fence when it comes to abortion.

    Due to institutional racism, I'm not sure that African American women are not targeted for abortion in an effort to keep the African American population down. Yeah, I know that sounds an awful lot like a conspiracy theory but taking in consideration the disproportionately high number of abortions that African American women have, especially when African Americans are the ethnic group with the highest religiosity in the country, and you have to wonder what the hell is going on to lead to these numbers
    that was the deliberate purpose behind the founding of planned parenthood (though Margaret Sanger also wanted to include the 'mongrelized asian hordes'); many an organization has continued to find new justifications for its' continued existance as the old ones became outmoded.

    There are quite a few unintended consequences of abortion rights and no fault divorce and I think if we are going to be a responsible society, we need to examine what we can improve the situation. Of course that is why I support marriage equality. I just can't see how alloiwing more people to marry in a time when marriage is not very attractive to a lot of people, would be a bad thing.
    how about this folks; i'm up for a trade. We will extend the definition of Marriage to include homosexuals, but get rid of no-fault divorce. who's in?

  2. #362
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    perhaps our differing predictions here stem also from our differing assumptions of the issue at hand; with you seeking out the "civil rights" parallel and myself seeking out the "sexual issue" parallel. i think in particular, though, when people marry and have children they tend to lose their tendency towards support of homosexual marriage; though I admit off hand I have no data to back up my presumption.

    does anyone have a good breakdown of the voting records from the States that have put Homosexual Marriage on the ballot?
    I know that my stance on same sex marriage really hasn't changed since I was a teenager. Of course, neither has my pro-life stance. I think they are completely separate issues.

    To me, same sex marriage is the right of homosexuals to marry who they actually want to (along with giving them all the things that come with it) vs. the "right" of some to maintain their traditional marriage definition. No measurable harm can happen from allowing gays to get married. And no one else's rights are really being infringed upon, since no one nor religion owns the word marriage. Abortion, otoh, is about the rights of the mother vs. the rights of the baby. Right now we really don't give an unborn child any rights, however, that doesn't change the fact that a baby loses their life because of the choice of the mother. There is harm done, but that harm is not considered as important as the mother's reproductive rights, legally speaking.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  3. #363
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Not really. Society changes, the fact that we are even having this discussion, and SSM is a possibility in the next few years is an indicator that society is changing. It was a religious conviction that different races shouldn't marry one another. Now that isn't even a blip on the radar. It will soon be that way for SSM.
    it was never a religious convinction that races shouldn't marry; it was a conviction that people sought to use religion to justify once darwinism fell through on them. the New Testaments' approach to homsexuality here is literally 180 degrees from its' approach to ethnicity.

  4. #364
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    how about this folks; i'm up for a trade. We will extend the definition of Marriage to include homosexuals, but get rid of no-fault divorce. who's in?
    I think that was the point of covenant marriage. I strongly support that idea. Before they get married, people can choose whether they want a "no fault" marriage or a covenant marriage.

    Of course, if I were an authoritarian I would require that all same sex marriages be covenant marriages.

  5. #365
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    it was never a religious convinction that races shouldn't marry; it was a conviction that people sought to use religion to justify once darwinism fell through on them. the New Testaments' approach to homsexuality here is literally 180 degrees from its' approach to ethnicity.
    Did you even read the quote Centrist provided about the ruling Loving got before their case got to the SCOTUS. Of course there it was a religious conviction.
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  6. #366
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    that was the deliberate purpose behind the founding of planned parenthood (though Margaret Sanger also wanted to include the 'mongrelized asian hordes'); many an organization has continued to find new justifications for its' continued existance as the old ones became outmoded.



    how about this folks; i'm up for a trade. We will extend the definition of Marriage to include homosexuals, but get rid of no-fault divorce. who's in?
    which definition?
    websters already includes it

    I also dont like how people treat marriage but under the law it is only a contract so if a person wants out then so be it, again its none of my buisness.
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  7. #367
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    the point at which people marry and have children is also when they begin to exhibit a host of other socially conservative facets. they tend to reengage in local churches, for example. in your group while you were at college everyone was free love and you went with the pack because like most people you go with the pack. in your group a decade later at church everyone thinks that marriage is important and sacred and you're beginning to recognize some truth to that and your'e like most people who go with the pack.... etc.
    I think you are definitely wrong on this. First, not everyone believes the same way that their church does. Plus, they could always just find a church that fits them, rather than changing their views on issues like homosexuality.

    Along with this, that is not how most issues of discrimination work. My grandparents were pretty much all against interracial relationships (1 set was actually pretty racist all around, the other set just didn't think the races should mix). My parents and my mother's brothers and sisters have no problem with such relationships, in fact I have cousins who are mixed. My husband's bio father asked him the same question my grandparents asked my father when they were told that he was marrying my mother "what color is she" (I'm not joking either, I was sitting on the couch when the question was asked of my (now) husband).

    As far as gay marriage goes, it is pretty much the same thing. My mother and her family have no problem with same sex marriage, and they are all Catholic. None of the children, either my mom's or my cousins, have any issues with gays at all.

    I honestly think that such issues are more about exposure to actually having to tolerate the people that you are discriminating against that brings equality. And it generally doesn't go away once a person does realize and try to change their biases/intolerance.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    it was never a religious convinction that races shouldn't marry; it was a conviction that people sought to use religion to justify once darwinism fell through on them. the New Testaments' approach to homsexuality here is literally 180 degrees from its' approach to ethnicity.
    so is your argument that it was never really in religion to be against interracial marriage or racism for that matter people just twisted it and used it for a tool to try and do so? or now the interpretation changed and we no longer practice it that way?
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  9. #369
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    how about this folks; i'm up for a trade. We will extend the definition of Marriage to include homosexuals, but get rid of no-fault divorce. who's in?
    I don't have a problem with that at all. In fact, just the other day I was talking about this with my husband. I think that when children are involved in the marriage, the couple should have to work on their problems (exceptions could be made for abuse and perhaps some other things). If there are no children involved, the couple should be able to get a divorce whenever they want though.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  10. #370
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    but yet you ignore history in your logic.
    actually i think it's been pretty ably demonstrated here that i have a much firmer grasp of the history of this issue than yourself, at least, as far as you are demonstrating.

    nope its my way of saying that it was more of NOTHING for the topic I was discussion has to discriminating against gays.
    you're the one who went with the sidelining to the history of Christians in this venue. no fair later complaining that it didn't turn out how you like

    no it was my dads church and yes I have gone on my own, meaningless to the debate but i answered anyway
    well that makes sense.

    more deflection from reality, to bad your example is not in anyway parallel what so ever LMAO
    children are not consenting adults are they? I love your strawman tactic its entertaining, transparent but funny none the less
    and homosexuals are not in man-woman relationships. do you really not get here that your charge of hypocricy because i choose to utilize a definition of marriage is rung hollow by the fact that you then impose your own? you can argue that mine should change because of this reason or the other; but to claim hypocricy for the act of having a definition is self-defeating.

    Translation: more hallow BS, if they aren't granted marriage it is NOT equal no matter your spin, the reality is without marriage it is unequal
    on the contrary. nowhere are you promised equality of result as a right. however i agree that their relationships remain unequal as regards the social institution of marriage. because society does not view them as equal.

    which is what i pointed out in the beginning.

    wrong you are just over sensitive and cant defined your points with logic, I on the other hand can. There is no sound reason to STOP gay marriage.
    none at all eh. perhaps you could list for us some of the conservative thinkers whose cases you have read and your subsequent reasoning for why their arguments are predicated on inaccuracies?

    Depends on what you mean by disagree. You are TOTALLY free to disagree, I fully support that right 100%
    no one asked if you believed in the right of free expression. you were asked if you believed it possible for well-meaning individuals to come to differing conclusions on this issue.

    jeeeez you dodged so many who knows now but ill ask you some I can think of
    ah. perhaps you could go back and quote all these.

    and RE-ASK you my question in this thread that was a simple YES/NO question you choose to talk around.
    sure as soon soon as you answer the simple YES/NO question of "have you stopped raping children" ?

    1. Do you think it was right and a good think for interracial marriage to be made legal against the majority?
    I think that you type too fast. However I will say what I have already said about Loving in this thread: the Court made the wrong decision for the right reasons; and I will reiterate as I stated above that their case would have been significantly strengthened had they pointed out the Constitutional questionability of the electorate.

    2. Do you think that "most" of your arguments hold water since most of them were the same arguments AGAINST minority and women rights.
    I think you are utilizing a stereotype here, and one i have already answered.

    3. Do you think it was right to make women and minorities equal against the majority (I admit I could be making this part up as I do NOT have the states but for argument sake well say its true)
    given that both women and minorities were given equal rights by a supermajority of the citizens of the United States of America, i'm afraid you are, in fact, making this question up.

    3. if there was a vote tomorrow for gay marriage would you vote YES to allow it or NO to disallow it.
    if there were a vote tomorrow on whether or not to alter the definition of marriage to include homosexual unions i would vote against it.

    please just answer yes or no and spare me the circle talk.
    sure. so did you know growing up that you would end up raping children? just yes/no please.

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