View Poll Results: What is same sex marriage?

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  • A special right

    109 56.77%
  • Equal protection

    62 32.29%
  • Other

    21 10.94%
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Thread: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

  1. #351
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    people of what? the nation? the state? there is room to argue that the supermajority of the nation meant to desegregate government facilities (which would include public schools) as part and parcel of the 14th Amendment; as that is what they set about to doing before the Supreme Court ruling reversed them.
    The people of the south. You know, Georgia, Mississippi, Alabama, etc.
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  2. #352
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    perhaps our differing predictions here stem also from our differing assumptions of the issue at hand; with you seeking out the "civil rights" parallel and myself seeking out the "sexual issue" parallel. i think in particular, though, when people marry and have children they tend to lose their tendency towards support of homosexual marriage; though I admit off hand I have no data to back up my presumption.

    does anyone have a good breakdown of the voting records from the States that have put Homosexual Marriage on the ballot?
    Why would you think this?
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  3. #353
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    The people of the south. You know, Georgia, Mississippi, Alabama, etc.
    then no, 'the voters' of the South would have voted pretty much lockstep against desegregation. this provided two problems: 1. to a degree they had been preempted by the voters of all the states and 2. "the voters" of the South could be demonstrated to be an artificially constructed group due to the degree of denial of the first point.

  4. #354
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Why would you think this?
    the point at which people marry and have children is also when they begin to exhibit a host of other socially conservative facets. they tend to reengage in local churches, for example. in your group while you were at college everyone was free love and you went with the pack because like most people you go with the pack. in your group a decade later at church everyone thinks that marriage is important and sacred and you're beginning to recognize some truth to that and your'e like most people who go with the pack.... etc.
    Last edited by cpwill; 01-04-11 at 12:55 AM.

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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    then no, 'the voters' of the South would have voted pretty much lockstep against desegregation. this provided two problems: 1. to a degree they had been preempted by the voters of all the states and 2. "the voters" of the South could be demonstrated to be an artificially constructed group due to the degree of denial of the first point.
    So you agree, if it had been voted on by the people, then African Americans rights under the Constitution would have been denied.
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    it's a tricky question; and i'm sympathetic to the logic that becaue the state electorate had been unconstitutionally supressed it's findings weren't constitutionally valid. so the question becomes what do we mean by "voted on by the people". certainly the results would have been drastically different had we allowed the local governments to run the ballots than if we had had federal troops do so a'la Reconstruction.

    the problem (especially with the Cooper decision) was that the Court eventually went with a "Because I Said So" justification; which in an issue as wound up in our system of Federalism as that one was, shall we say, unrefined.
    Last edited by cpwill; 01-04-11 at 01:01 AM.

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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    More Americans Pro Life than Pro Choice for the First Time

    Younger Voters Trend More Pro-Life

    what i found interesting in that last one was that the 18-29 age group was the most likely of all the cohorts to say that Abortion should be illegal in any circumstance. I think much of our generation will include a general rejection of the Boomers.
    I'm not suprised. I tend to be very libertarian minded and I find myself on the fence when it comes to abortion.

    Due to institutional racism, I'm not sure that African American women are not targeted for abortion in an effort to keep the African American population down. Yeah, I know that sounds an awful lot like a conspiracy theory but taking in consideration the disproportionately high number of abortions that African American women have, especially when African Americans are the ethnic group with the highest religiosity in the country, and you have to wonder what the hell is going on to lead to these numbers.

    My theory is that marriage has so declined in the African American community that it has lead to a situatoin where it is not uncommon that an African American male can have several children with several different women and be married to none of them. At the same time, African American women are enrolling in college at vastly higher rates than African American men. As such, I think African American women are choosing to have abortions at far higher rates in order to avoid raising illegitamate children that might hinder them from pursuing things like higher education.

    There are quite a few unintended consequences of abortion rights and no fault divorce and I think if we are going to be a responsible society, we need to examine what we can improve the situation. Of course that is why I support marriage equality. I just can't see how alloiwing more people to marry in a time when marriage is not very attractive to a lot of people, would be a bad thing.

    Of course, if I learned anything from the DADT repeal, it is the true animosity is lying under the surface. It won't be until marriage equality is established that we get an idea of people's true colors.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 01-04-11 at 01:02 AM.

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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    the point at which people marry and have children is also when they begin to exhibit a host of other socially conservative facets. they tend to reengage in local churches, for example. in your group while you were at college everyone was free love and you went with the pack because like most people you go with the pack. in your group a decade later at church everyone thinks that marriage is important and sacred and you're beginning to recognize some truth to that and your'e like most people who go with the pack.... etc.
    Not really. Society changes, the fact that we are even having this discussion, and SSM is a possibility in the next few years is an indicator that society is changing. It was a religious conviction that different races shouldn't marry one another. Now that isn't even a blip on the radar. It will soon be that way for SSM.
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  9. #359
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    not really. it was from a fairly decent college and has served me well; though admittedly it prepared me better for my masters' program than for most professions (though I was fortunate to find one where it did).
    but yet you ignore history in your logic.



    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    is that sort of your way of saying you have no response?
    nope its my way of saying that it was more of NOTHING for the topic I was discussion has to discriminating against gays.



    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    which means nothing. you said you were "supposed" to be a Christian. is this your parents church and you are obligated to go? did you put this duty on yourself?
    no it was my dads church and yes I have gone on my own, meaningless to the debate but i answered anyway



    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    do you support the right of children to marry? why? do you hate children? why do you support the right of gays to marry, but not children? your hypocracy rings so hollow.....
    more deflection from reality, to bad your example is not in anyway parallel what so ever LMAO
    children are not consenting adults are they? I love your strawman tactic its entertaining, transparent but funny none the less


    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    full gay rights. every American should have equal treatment before the law. keep marriage defined as it is.
    Translation: more hallow BS, if they aren't granted marriage it is NOT equal no matter your spin, the reality is without marriage it is unequal

    so again, every american EXCEPT gays, thanks for your honesty

    also defined by who? you? the law? websters? the bible?
    no matter the choose the LAWFUL definition the ONLY one that matters is currently discriminating.



    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    yes. you seek to belittle presumably because you haven't actually thought very deeply about this issue, and need to cover. unfortunately, it sort of just makes you look.... childish.
    wrong you are just over sensitive and cant defined your points with logic, I on the other hand can. There is no sound reason to STOP gay marriage. and if thinking deep is defined by you THANK GOD because this thread proves thats about spit deep with you. If deep thinking is this "(I support) full gay rights. every American should have equal treatment before the law. keep marriage defined as it is."then I want to be shallow forever LMAO




    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    says the person who hates children
    more deflection. no surprise

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    did it ever occur to you that perhaps well meaning men and women might actually disagree?
    Depends on what you mean by disagree. You are TOTALLY free to disagree, I fully support that right 100%

    This is my stance:
    In America I think its fine for anybody to:
    THINK its wrong, gross or offensive etc
    TEACH its wrong gross or offensive etc
    PREACH its wrong gross or offensive etc
    BELIEVE its wrong gross or offensive etc
    FEEL its wrong gross or offensive etc
    etc

    and i also believe and support in your rights to do so but once you try to stop it I think you wrong on so many levels.
    I can’t imagine how AMERICANS think they have the right to tell two CONSENTING ADULTS who and who they cant marry. It doesnt get anymore pompous, arrogant, selfish, hypercritical and anti american than that. How anybody thinks they have the right to tell a consenting adult they cant marry another consenting adult is beyond me.


    so well meaning ENDS at that, once you try and stop it NO in my opinion you arent a well meaning american, you are an oppressor and discriminator.



    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    alright, what question am i so afraid of?
    jeeeez you dodged so many who knows now but ill ask you some I can think of and RE-ASK you my question in this thread that was a simple YES/NO question you choose to talk around.

    1. Do you think it was right and a good think for interracial marriage to be made legal against the majority?

    2. Do you think that "most" of your arguments hold water since most of them were the same arguments AGAINST minority and women rights.

    3. Do you think it was right to make women and minorities equal against the majority (I admit I could be making this part up as I do NOT have the states but for argument sake well say its true)

    3. if there was a vote tomorrow for gay marriage would you vote YES to allow it or NO to disallow it.

    please just answer yes or no and spare me the circle talk.
    Last edited by AGENT J; 01-04-11 at 01:08 AM.
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  10. #360
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Why would you think this?
    I was wondering that too?
    what if their children are gay, id say in those cases it has "potential" to do just the opposite.
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