View Poll Results: What is same sex marriage?

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  • A special right

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Thread: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

  1. #241
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    That was in the link I provided last night, I believe. Good find, though.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
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    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  2. #242
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    By the way. I reposted the link to all the information last night. Go to post #129.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  3. #243
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    [SIZE="3"][FONT="Book Antiqua"]That depends on your culture. Most adherents of traditional culture have expectations of what constitute a good marriage. Sometimes it doesn't happen. People stray. Most heteros don't. However, what if you belonged to a culture that wasn't traditional? What if you went into marriage without an expectation of fidelity? If that's the case the institution of marriage, the idea of marriage won't promote monogamy. It's really quite simple when you think about it.
    Most heteros don't.
    What now!? Are we living on the same planet here? Where 50% of those legal heterosexual marriages fail, DNA tests are showing that a lot of men are raising other men's children, and HIV is spreading like wildfire through the heterosexual population, overtaking gays? A person's sexual orientation has no bearing at all on their sexual fidelity, which, in turn, has no bearing on their fitness for marriage. Sexual fidelity is an agreement between the people involved and no one else. Swingers are legitimately married. Their choices do not invalidate their marriages.

    Here are the real facts.

    1) Some married couples do not have children. Child raising is a side effect of marriage. Even if is a common purpose, it is still not all-encompassing.
    2) Plenty of marriages fail, for many reasons.
    3) Loving parents raise children well, regardless of their sexuality.

    There is no cause to deny the right of any consenting adult to enter into a marriage contract with any other consenting adult. That's it.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  4. #244
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Firstly, you can read my username. Do not post it incorrectly again.
    aye aye capn crunch.


    I know it demonstrates that your position is wrong, and I know that you don't like that. Too bad. Doesn't alter facts. I suppose that means that you will either have to re-evaluate your position or continue to support things that are erroneous... just to avoid cognative dissonance. Gee... I wonder which one you'll do.
    {sigh} opinion.





    No, I demonstrate when a study has methodological flaws that show it has no validity. That's what I did with Schumm's study in the thread that Your Star linked. I'm certain I wasn't the first person to do so. Maybe just the first person, HERE. Now, you could go and read my posts in that thread... so we would have a frame of reference to discuss. Or, you could continue to discuss what you don't know anything about. Gee... I wonder which one of THESE you'll choose.
    Fine, how bout a little linky. Your star tricked me into watching rachel maddow on youtube. {sigh}

    Poor Dutch. You have nothing. Go read the othe thread. It's not "just my opinion". I gave plenty of evidence and infrormation. I purchased the study and examined the data. That trumps anything you've done by a huge margin. You, on the other hand have provided nothing to support your opinions. Not surprisingly. That's why their value is quite questionable.
    Once again, how bout a link capn linkless. and if I see one more rachel maddow video...........I'm outta there.
    He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. ~ Winston Churchill

  5. #245
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    What now!? Are we living on the same planet here? Where 50% of those legal heterosexual marriages fail, DNA tests are showing that a lot of men are raising other men's children, and HIV is spreading like wildfire through the heterosexual population, overtaking gays? A person's sexual orientation has no bearing at all on their sexual fidelity, which, in turn, has no bearing on their fitness for marriage. Sexual fidelity is an agreement between the people involved and no one else. Swingers are legitimately married. Their choices do not invalidate their marriages.

    Here are the real facts.

    1) Some married couples do not have children. Child raising is a side effect of marriage. Even if is a common purpose, it is still not all-encompassing.2) Plenty of marriages fail, for many reasons.
    3) Loving parents raise children well, regardless of their sexuality.There is no cause to deny the right of any consenting adult to enter into a marriage contract with any other consenting adult. That's it.
    If those statements are "facts" you won't have any problem linking; an article, a study, an article about a study, a blog, or even a really really nice poem. If those "facts" are opinion you don't havta' link anything. There, see how easy that is. All ya' need is a functioning brain to discern the difference.
    Last edited by Dutch; 01-02-11 at 07:58 PM.
    He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. ~ Winston Churchill

  6. #246
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    By the way. I reposted the link to all the information last night. Go to post #129.
    Thank you. I appreciate that. I'll set aside some time this week to read them. I'm interested in their findings.
    He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. ~ Winston Churchill

  7. #247
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    By the way. I reposted the link to all the information last night. Go to post #129.
    It always a pleasure to watch you work in gay rights threads. You have even done some work in threads of my own and after fallacy upon fallacy is slapped down it always humors me to see people deny reality over and over again with more and more desperate measures.

    Id love to know how many broken keyboards, mice and monitors your facts and logic have caused the over emotional, discriminatory and illogical to break. Some times I can almost hear them punching their keyboards

    Good posting.
    Last edited by AGENT J; 01-02-11 at 08:19 PM.
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  8. #248
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    [SIZE="3"][FONT="Book Antiqua"]Several people have made the same assertion as you are making now. Tell me just how is it that a gay community that views monogamy in a much different light than the hetero community will simply adopt hetero views on monogamy simply because of a marriage licence? It's not that people can't or won't change behavior. It's a matter of just why a licence, one many humanists don't place much value on anyway will stimulate that change.
    I made a distinction between a single relationship and a married one. They are distinctly different, and any person that has been in a monogamous relationship for a time and then was married would know the difference. One promotes more stability than the other... it is irrelevant if "many" humanists don't place value in it, most people do.

    I made it quite clear that both heteros and homos view a singles relationship pretty much the same, so I have no idea where you are getting that I am saying that they view it in a much different light. *shrugs*

    You are entitled to your opinion, skippy, but neither you nor anyone else here has even tried to explain just how this one is supposed to work or even why it would happen. Saying it smugly and pretending it's the end of the matter isn't enough. I humbly suggest this is far more likely projection on your part than anything else.
    Defensive much? Sheesh... I am talking, not smugly... just in an average manner. I would suggest that the one casting aspersions about others projecting should first look in the mirror and see that maybe it is just himself engaging in said behaviour. Additionally, does calling me a silly name help you feel superior and elevate yourself to yourself in some way?

    For my part I'm not interested in any social engineering schemes to change the gay community. I'm all about leaving them the hell alone. That's what I would like for myself. I should think you would too. This isn't projection on my part, it's just wishful thinking. Do you follow, skippy?
    I am glad that you want to leave them alone. Granting gay marriage is certainly not interferring with them in any way, so I am sure that you are now firmly in favour of granting them same sex marriage?
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  9. #249
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    If those statements are "facts" you won't have any problem linking; an article, a study, an article about a study, a blog, or even a really really nice poem. If those "facts" are opinion you don't havta' link anything. There, see how easy that is. All ya' need is a functioning brain to discern the difference.
    I'll help him out a little.

    First, there are a growing number of married couples who choose to be childless in the US.

    Childless By Choice - childless couples an emerging demographic - Statistical Data Included | American Demographics | Find Articles at BNET

    I would say that 18.4% is a pretty significant number of couples that don't have children. These are couples where the woman is within childbearing age 15-44. It looks from the data, that at least around 6% of those couples (or more) are actually choosing not to have children. And this is from studies done between 1995 and 1998. Those trends were/are going up, not down.

    Second, this is the CDC's report on how many people/couples are infertile.

    FASTSTATS - Infertility

    That is another 7.4% of couples that won't be having who are within childbearing age.

    And that doesn't even count people who are done raising their own children nor people who get married after the woman's childbearing age (45+). Nor does it count men who cannot conceive children.

    So no, marriage is not purely for childbearing purposes when at least 10% of married US couples cannot have or do not want their own children.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  10. #250
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    How do gays feel about monogamy? This sfgate article (also refered to by my new york times article btw) references a study by colleen hoff found some 47% believe in open relationships, 45% believe in monogamy and 8% couldn't seem to agree about what they were (). How does that compare to hetero feelings about monogamy? According to this wiki article something like between 1.7 and 7% of married people have open relationships. [/FONT][/SIZE]
    Regarding just this from your post, one thing that you haven't included in this is how many heterosexual men and women choose to remain single because they don't believe in monogamy. You can't compare the homosexual attitude toward monogamy with how many straights are in open marriages, because it fails to include any straight people who aren't for monogamy, and decide to remain single or at least not get married for that fact.

    Plus, just because someone isn't in an open marriage, doesn't mean that the person believes that they, personally believe in monogamy. Plenty of married men and women commit adultery without their partners consent.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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