View Poll Results: What is same sex marriage?

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Thread: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

  1. #141
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    I provided support for an assertion I made. Gay coupling tends to be short and often non monogamous. I've made no claims to "proving" anything. I have notice a tendancy among my erstwhile liberl/leftist brothers and sisters to some rather remarkable claims themselves tho. Have you not noticed yourself? You have the capacity to read.
    Not that it matters one bit or that is a good argument to stop marriage but say that was true, I got 2 things.

    1. wouldn't it be possible that marriage would help extend relationships
    2. I don't see them being dramatically shorter than hetero relationships and marriage itself already ends in divorce what? 51% of the time?

    With that said, length of relationship is meaningless and with 1 & 2 above it makes that weak argument even more meaningless.
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  2. #142
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    go ahead, I'll read them next week. but the fact of the matter is all of these studies essentially reach the same conclusion; gays produce children as well adjusted as straight parents or better adjusted. Nice. Gay parents produce better adjusted children than straights all the time. Quite remarkable when you think of it.


    Actually, it's quite consistent, when you think about it. Also, it shows repeatablity, one of the key factors that identifies validity in research. I find it interesting that you don't see this, But, of course, you are not anti-gay.

    Most of these studies seem to have similar problems;
    -most of these studies concentrate on lesbians.
    Most but not all.

    -most of these studies concentrate on whites.
    That's true. The samples are overly representative of whites. However, further research, and I believe it is in the link that I provided, has demonstrated similar findings amongst other ethnicities. This, however, does need to be looked at further.
    -control groups tend to be based on gays with children from previous hetero marriages, just how do you factor out the effects of divorce on the children? Just how do divorced children show no problems from divorce when most studies show the children of divorce more often than not develop emotional and developemental problems from divorce. Could it be lesbians can mysteriously overcome all those developmental problems simply because their gay?
    This is not accurate. Control groups for the studies tend to be based on either biological, intact families, or adoptive intact families, depending on the study.

    -just why are there so few longitudinal studies of gay parenting?
    Because most of the research around homosexuality was faulty, especially that of homosexuality and child molestation. As that information has been found to be non-credible, the amount of gays who rear children have gone up. If I recall correctly, there is at least one, if not two longitudinal studies that I did list.

    -representative samples of parents in studies are still mostly very small.
    Mostly, but the key factor in their reliability is the repeatability of the studies.

    -most reprresentative sample of parents are from urban areas. Are they really representative of the rest of the country?
    This is not accurate. I would say that the samples are mostly NOT from urban areas.

    -virtually all the studies I've read, that includes some of yours the reasearchers have come to eerily similar results......gays, lesbians anyway, tend to produce children as well adjusted as hetero couple, or better! Are there no red flags here for you at all?
    Not at all. It demonstrates the repeatability of this hypothesis, a cornerstone of research validity. If you do a test and your hypothesis is proven each time, you can say that your hypothesis is valid. I find it interesting that you would question repeatability.
    -What, exacty qualifies as "well adjusted?"
    There are four factors and I believe they were listed at the beginning of my first post.
    -if these studies are anything to go by we no longer need men to raise children, unless they're gay of course. So much for all that research that suggests children actually need fathers in order to develop properly.
    No, it doesn't show that at all. What it shows is that two parents, of any gender or sexual orientation, will rear children equally as well.

    So, where are your sources?
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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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  3. #143
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    As I have said in a number of threads, the best option that is realistic (realizing that the government is never going to fully get out of the marriage business) is to abolish the term "marriage" from the law books and replace it with "civil union" country wide. Allow marriage to firmly and completely fall only within one realm, the private realm, rather than straddling both private and public with duel meanings and thus issues revolving around both.
    This has also been the solution that I have been professing in a number of threads over the past few years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  4. #144
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    I firmly believe a tradional family unit composed of two parents, male and female, is the best possible combination to accomplish that goal. Just why do you insist on lowering the bar?
    You can believe what you want, but it is nothing but your opinion. Research does not suppor this opinion. And since this is the case, why do YOU insist on keeping the bar low?




    It was an article, not a study. It did however, support my contention monogamous behavior isn't exactly the goal of a great number of homosexual couples, something that has been pointed out in other studies. Would you like for me to produce one? I understand you don't approve of the article. It doesn't fit your political perspective. That still doesn't make it wrong. It just shows you have a bias you want to keep.
    Produce the study.



    That would amount to only 50% and that before the trials and tribulations of marriage. Hetero couples usually go into marriage with somelike a 95% expectation of monogomy. Something like 25% eventually stray. Do the math.
    Really? Lets see some research that proves those numbers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  5. #145
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    This has also been the solution that I have been professing in a number of threads over the past few years.
    Its a fine COMPREMISE in my opinion but not being gay id wonder what that voice would think of it, but also, dont you think that makes it too easy for people to still argue discrimination?

    IMO a name change is just that, discrimination.
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  6. #146
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    The problem with making all marriages civil unions is that it just is not going to happen, not any time soon.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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  7. #147
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    Well, yes, much of the "research" I've seen have problems. We're all aware not all research is valid. Not all research is reproducable.


    Yet I have shown the reseach IS repeatable, one of the most important components to research validity. I understand that you must ignore this because it does not fit with your personal biases, but that does not make it any less true.


    Reseachers do have biases. Several of you have objected to my new york times article. Am I not allowed to object to some of these studies? Are liberals/leftists the only ones allowed to object to sources? Walter shumm has pointed out some of these in a recent study of his. I could provide that. I wouldn't even object if you disagreed with his findings, unlike yourself, of course.
    Several of us already destroyed Schumm's study in another thread about two weeks ago. His study is not credible.

    In regards to my article. I provided support for an assertion I made. Gay coupling tends to be short and often non monogamous. I've made no claims to "proving" anything. I have notice a tendancy among my erstwhile liberl/leftist brothers and sisters to some rather remarkable claims themselves tho. Have you not noticed yourself? You have the capacity to read.
    Actually, what I've noticed is that conservatives like you tend to make ridiculous claims that are just opinions and try to pass them off as facts. Which is precisely what you have been doing in this thread... whereas the liberals have been producing research. Now... how about dispensing with the ridiculous partisan hackery and discuss the topic, honestly. Oh... and btw... Zyphlin is no liberal. Further fail for you.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  8. #148
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    Its a fine COMPREMISE in my opinion but not being gay id wonder what that voice would think of it, but also, dont you think that makes it too easy for people to still argue discrimination?

    IMO a name change is just that, discrimination.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The problem with making all marriages civil unions is that it just is not going to happen, not any time soon.
    I don't agree that altering the name is discrimination. It can still be called marriage if one gets joined in a church. But I do agree that changing the name for everyone would be a huge undertaking.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  9. #149
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I don't agree that altering the name is discrimination. It can still be called marriage if one gets joined in a church. But I do agree that changing the name for everyone would be a huge undertaking.
    again I dont think it would bother me either but I bet it would bother people because we would all know that it was changed because of gays and that could easily be argued as discrimination.

    If you dont think so just apply it to race or gender. Heres a funny example I like to use.

    Congrats Mr. Obama/ Mrs Clinton! you won! uhm listen, see the thing is we aren’t going to call you the President, see well, uhm , you are half black/a woman and we just cant call you THE PRESIDENT, that’s a “sacred" word based on MY opinion, even though we have used it for all others we are going to change it NOW, we are going to call you aaaaaah . . . . uhm . . . The CEO if the United States of America, yeah thats it.

    Now mind you, you'll still have the same "full rights/privileges" and powers and decisions to make has the president we just cant call you that or use that word anymore because of you.


    Like I said I dont think it would bother me but if someone wanted to argue discrimination based on the example above id have a tough time arguing against them.

    Just saying
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  10. #150
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    Re: Same sex marriage: what is it really?

    Ok, I have an article here that references a book by a european sociologist that has come to a different conclusion.
    source
    .......In her book Children as Trophies? European sociologist Patricia Morgan reviews 144 published studies on same-sex parenting and concludes that it fosters homosexual behaviour, confused gender roles, and increased likelihood of serious psychological problems later in life. A French parliamentary report on the rights of children decried the "flagrant lack of objectivity" in much of the pro-gay research in this area, and concluded with the warning that "we do not yet know all the effects on the construction of the adopted child's psychological identity. As long as there is uncertainty, however small, is it not in the best interest of the child to apply the precautionary principle, as is done in other domains?"(1)

    When spouses "fall in love" with their children, it doesn't diminish their love for the other spouse, but enriches it. Same-sex couples may seek children hoping they will provide this same effect, but will more often find them an obstacle to and a competitor for affection..........
    He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. ~ Winston Churchill

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